Disappointed

[Daughter of Kali]

I have always admired Nelson Mandela as one of the great Black leaders of our time. So why did he not celebrate his 90th birthday with his own people, but acted instead like a senile Uncle Tom? And in England of all places, the birthplace of the slave trade.

[jacqui]

Because he is what he is a senile Uncle Tom.
I will never respect this man for his behavior towards his ex wife who held the ANC together while his *** was locked up. He then get released and all of a sudden he can not forgive her for what he was told she did but he can forgive all of those whites for the atrocities committed against his south african co horts.

[afrocentric]

Originally Posted by jacqui

Because he is what he is a senile Uncle Tom.
I will never respect this man for his behavior towards his ex wife who held the ANC together while his *** was locked up. He then get released and all of a sudden he can not forgive her for what he was told she did but he can forgive all of those whites for the atrocities committed against his south african co horts.

you know what jacqui, i have alway wondered what really went down with mr mandela and ms. winnie but never got around to finish reading the details. i really do need to read more about this.

[Amico]

I guess you can't please everybody.

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by jacqui

Because he is what he is a senile Uncle Tom.
I will never respect this man for his behavior towards his ex wife who held the ANC together while his *** was locked up. He then get released and all of a sudden he can not forgive her for what he was told she did but he can forgive all of those whites for the atrocities committed against his south african co horts.

• White Folks do not send black men to prison for 27 years for being Uncle Toms.
• No sane person who heard Mandela's speech on February 11, 1990 would try to argue that he was senile then. As to if he is now, well, most people do get that way by the time they are 90 years old, if they live that long. But, I personally have seen no indication of that as yet.
• While her husband was in prison, Winnie had at least one affair that Nelson knew about. No one can judge her for that because 27 years is a long time for a sista to do without. But, after 27 years of being apart, and other bed partners becoming involved, you also can't judge her husband for choosing to move on as well.
• When Nelson was arrested, he was 44 years old and both he and his wife were cool with the use of violence to end apartheid. Remember that, at the time of his arrest in 1962, he was the leader of the ANC's armed resistance wing, Umknonto we Sizwe. Obviously, the brother was not a Uncle Tom.
• But, upon his release, he was a wiser elder who now saw the wisdom of reserving violence as a last, reluctant, resort. But, the younger Winnie was still very much into militant struggle. At the time of Mandela's release, they were two different people headed in opposing directions. They were, to borrow a phrase from the bible, unequally yoked together.

[blkbuttafly]

Originally Posted by Istlota

• White Folks do not send black men to prison for 27 years for being Uncle Toms.
• No sane person who heard Mandela's speech on February 11, 1990 would try to argue that he was senile then. As to if he is now, well, most people do get that way by the time they are 90 years old, if they live that long. But, I personally have seen no indication of that as yet.
• While her husband was in prison, Winnie had at least one affair that Nelson knew about. No one can judge her for that because 27 years is a long time for a sista to do without. But, after 27 years of being apart, and other bed partners becoming involved, you also can't judge her husband for choosing to move on as well.
• When Nelson was arrested, he was 44 years old and both he and his wife were cool with the use of violence to end apartheid. Remember that, at the time of his arrest in 1962, he was the leader of the ANC's armed resistance wing, Umknonto we Sizwe. Obviously, the brother was not a Uncle Tom.
• But, upon his release, he was a wiser elder who now saw the wisdom of reserving violence as a last, reluctant, resort. But, the younger Winnie was still very much into militant struggle. At the time of Mandela's release, they were two different people headed in opposing directions. They were, to borrow a phrase from the bible, unequally yoked together.

I'm sorry but with all due respect most of what you're saying is no real defense for Nelson Mandela..........Heck...25 yrs ago the guy that lives next door to my mother weighed about 150 lbs and name was Craig........he's now about 260 lbs and goes by the name of MERCEDES. MOST men go into prison ONE way and come out another if they're in there long enough. What does what he was when he went IN prison have to do with what came OUT of prison?

and i'm sorry you even bringing up Winnie having had other partners while her husband was in jail over 20 yrs is a bit silly. And if this is information you got that was suppose to have been said by Mandela himself... then he is hardly a wise MAN.

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by blkbuttafly

MOST men go into prison ONE way and come out another if they're in there long enough. What does what he was when he went IN prison have to do with what came OUT of prison?

What should matter to you is_why_ Mandela spent a third of his life in prison. It was not for being a Uncle Tom. It is sad, and another indication of how badly black America has lost its way, that so many of us now think of Nelson Mandela as a bad person.

We have become quite efficient of late at bad-mouthing the accomplishments of some of our greatest leaders --- Mandela, King, and Gandhi. If they didn't or don't talk about white people as being some kind of devils or lower forms of life, we now think they are Uncle Toms.

and i'm sorry you even bringing up Winnie having had other partners while her husband was in jail over 20 yrs is a bit silly. And if this is information you got that was suppose to have been said by Mandela himself... then he is hardly a wise MAN.

If Nelson Mandela was the man that you prefer to think of him as, he could easily have trashed Winnie in his autobiography. Yet, there is not one word in it that is anything other than complimentary of his ex-wife.

Anyone who wants to know who the real Nelson Mandela was and is should go to their local library and check out a copy of "Long Walk To Freedom".

[afrocentric]

Originally Posted by blkbuttafly

I'm sorry but with all due respect most of what you're saying is no real defense for Nelson Mandela..........Heck...25 yrs ago the guy that lives next door to my mother weighed about 150 lbs and name was Craig........he's now about 260 lbs and goes by the name of MERCEDES. MOST men go into prison ONE way and come out another if they're in there long enough. What does what he was when he went IN prison have to do with what came OUT of prison?

and your point is?

and i'm sorry you even bringing up Winnie having had other partners while her husband was in jail over 20 yrs is a bit silly.

and why would you think that?

And if this is information you got that was suppose to have been said by Mandela himself... then he is hardly a wise MAN.

do you have any resources about why nelson and winnie decided to apart?

[blkbuttafly]

Originally Posted by afrocentric

do you have any resources about why nelson and winnie decided to apart?

He stated Nelson Mandela was not imprisoned for being an Uncle Tom. MY POINT is whatever he was when he went in .....in all probability is not what he was when he came out. His imprisonment in all likely hood was to BREAK his desire to struggle. The very definition of Struggle is to make strenuous or violent efforts in the face of difficulties or opposition. And maybe they did exactly what they intended to do.


And the point that he brought up about Winnie.....I will repeat is SILLY as heck. This is RL not a made for TV program. in the real world people have affairs. I've known my husband for 17yrs and believe me an affair would NOT make him EXPENDABLE to me. An affair would not ERASE all of the other wonderful things that he is and has done. He is important to me and I would NEVER try to REDUCE him and his character as a human being and my partner in the struggle to an effin affair. And no he WOULDN'T be a WISE man if he could not get past EGO with his partner in the struggle.

[blkbuttafly]

Originally Posted by Istlota

What should matter to you is_why_ Mandela spent a third of his life in prison. It was not for being a Uncle Tom. It is sad, and another indication of how badly black America has lost its way, that so many of us now think of Nelson Mandela as a bad person.

We have become quite efficient of late at bad-mouthing the accomplishments of some of our greatest leaders --- Mandela, King, and Gandhi. If they didn't or don't talk about white people as being some kind of devils or lower forms of life, we now think they are Uncle Toms.



If Nelson Mandela was the man that you prefer to think of him as, he could easily have trashed Winnie in his autobiography. Yet, there is not one word in it that is anything other than complimentary of his ex-wife.

Anyone who wants to know who the real Nelson Mandela was and is should go to their local library and check out a copy of "Long Walk To Freedom".

Take your OWN advice brother .....Winnie is Black too. It was YOU that seem to have attempted to discredit her. The same rules you want to apply to those don't agree with you .....apply them to yourself as well.

There isn't a single BLACK entity located somewhere in Mississippi that pumps out the same thoughts and ideas simultaneously to EVERY single black person in the world. So WE haven't become anything. WE are all individuals with our own independant thought. Black folks have the right to analyze, CRITIQUE, and come up with their OWN individual conclusions just like every other group does.