Michael Dyson responds to Barack Obama Fathers day speech - AfroChat - African American

chibaba · June 23rd, 2008, 10:55 PM

"On father's day, when Barack Obama assailed absent fathers as a critical source of suffering for black communities, he sought two political advantages for the price of one. He embraced a thorny tradition of social thought that says black families are largely responsible for their own troubles. And he was seen in a black church not railing at racism but rebuking his own race. Obama's words may have been spoken to black folk, but they were also aimed at those whites still on the fence about whom to send to the White House.

The notion that black families are mired in self-imposed trauma stems from Daniel Patrick Moynihan's 1965 report, in which Moynihan argued that the black family was a "tangle of pathology" whose destruction by slavery had produced female-headed households, absent fathers and high illegitimacy. Interestingly, Martin Luther King Jr. was one of the few Negro leaders who refused to condemn the future New York Senator's report. "The shattering blows on the Negro family have made it fragile, deprived and often psychopathic," King said at the time. "Nothing is so much needed as a secure family life for a people to pull themselves out of poverty and backwardness." But King also insisted that Moynihan's report offered both "dangers and opportunities." The danger was that "problems will be attributed to innate Negro weaknesses and used to justify neglect and rationalize oppression." The opportunity was the chance that the report would galvanize support and resources for the black family.

Four decades later, King's misgivings have been realized more than his hopes. Stereotypes about negligent black fathers persist, promoted most vehemently by Bill Cosby, who has embarked on a national crusade against the alleged misbehavior of poor black families. And yet such stereotypes may have little basis in reality. Research by Boston College social psychologist Rebekah Levine Coley found that black fathers not living at home are more likely to keep in contact with their children than fathers of any other ethnic or racial group. Coley offers a more complex view of the causes of absenteeism among black fathers: the failure to live up to expectations to provide for their families--owing to stunted economic and educational opportunities--drives poor black men into despair and away from their families. Such findings undermine the arguments about black fathers' inherent pathology or moral lassitude. These men need jobs, not jabs.

Obama's Father's Day speech did tilt gently in that direction: he noted the need for more cops and more money for teachers, for more after-school programs and fewer guns. But he laid most of the blame on black families and fathers, in blunt--and occasionally belittling--terms. He said many of them acted "like boys instead of men." He also said, "Any fool can have a child. That doesn't make you a father. It's the courage to raise a child that makes you a father."

The trouble is that the problems Obama identified won't be solved solely through tough talk in black churches. We've heard these themes before. In the 1970s, Jesse Jackson said, "You are not a man because you can make a baby. You're only a man if you can raise a baby, protect a baby and provide for a baby." But like King before him, Jackson understood that one must beat back the barriers that stand in the way of individual initiative. Obama brilliantly cited a Chris Rock routine about black men expecting praise for things they were supposed to do, like stay out of jail and take care of their children. But Rock's humor is so effective because he is just as hard on whites as on blacks. That's a part of the routine Obama has not yet adopted.

Obama's rebuff of black fathers and his firm insistence on personal responsibility were calculated to win over socially conservative whites who were turned off by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's tirades against persistent racism. But in his desire to appeal to such voters, Obama may have missed the balance that King maintained. Personal responsibility is a crucial, but only partial, answer to what ails black families. Huge unemployment, racist mortgage practices, weakened child-care support, stunted training programs for blue-collar workers who've been made obsolete by technology, and the gutting of early-childhood learning programs are all forces that must be combated. If we rightly expect more black fathers to stick around to raise their children, we've got to give them a greater opportunity to stay home."

Here is the link to the article:

Obama's Rebuke of Absentee Black Fathers - TIME

afrocentric · June 24th, 2008, 10:02 AM

i remember reading something similar to this but i'm enjoying this one as well. heres a poster's reponse that really made me think about obama's reponse about black fathers......

Quote:

This is one reason why I absolutely hate the character of this UncleTom. While Obama shuns black organizations, avoids even speaking of Civil Rights issues, he makes haste to once again criticize black fathers. As if it is black fathers that are the problem with Black America. As a loving black father, I find his cherry picking of Black America, disgraceful.

Always willing to criticize his own, at the pleasure of white folks, Obama never criticizes whites. And since Obama needs the woman vote, I guess he would never criticize women for having babies out of wedlock (not saying he should, just pointing out the hypocrisy).

Obama had nothing to say about Jena six, until much later via a quiet planned statement.

Obama has never fought for black or minority civil rights. Obama has never led or started a movement for the improvement of lives of blacks, black families or minorities.

Black men, we need to rise up as a people and reject this UncleTom, before it is much too late.

need he say more......

chibaba · June 24th, 2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrocentric

i remember reading something similar to this but i'm enjoying this one as well. heres a poster's reponse that really made me think about obama's reponse about black fathers......

need he say more......

That was a good comment to share.

Thanks

onelove917 · July 3rd, 2008, 07:47 PM

The following post by a "jewels0479" elsewhere as post #39 is an excellent response ::::

I dont really understand peoples rejection of Obama. I'm not politically savvy so I'm not going to argue his politics but I will say this....He is running for President of United States of America, not the President of Blacks in America. In order to be able to effect the change that we want, he has to appeal to the masses. He won't get elected gearing his entire campaign towards the needs of black people. He would shut out all other voters and the thereby lose the election. That seems like common sense to me. The fact of the matter is that many blacks in America do not want to go back to Africa, they want to co-exist and be treated fairly in AMERICA. I believe that is possible. He may only be half black but he is married to a black woman and his children are black. That says a lot to me because he could have married a white woman who was more beneficial to him in a number of ways. At the end of the day, we are living, working and raising our families in America and we have a choice to make. McCain or Obama. Who will you choose?
Also, maybe the naysayers should look at the broader picture. How could Obama being elected the next president HURT black people? If he did nothing at all to help blacks, he has at the very least opened the door for the next black person to be elected president. He has shown young black men that someone who looks like them can run this country. They will then aspire to that and believe that they can realistically achieve that. Belief in self is the catalyst for all achievement so my hat goes off to Obama for painting that picture for our sons to see.

chibaba · July 3rd, 2008, 08:29 PM

It not about shutting out other voters, it is about, at the bare minimum, acknowledging the black vote and not taking it for granted. And Oabma being elected President will give white America another reason to deny the fact that there is still institutional and social racism. They will believe that since there is black president then the justice system is working well, corporations do not hire based on zip codes and names, and all black people should pull themselves up by their boot straps despite the fact the majority of white America is living one or two pay checks away from poverty.

Obama is just another politician, who happens to be black, that thrives on the ignorance of the American electorate who believes that the government has their best interest in mind.

True · July 5th, 2008, 07:39 PM

I know a lot of Black men that are doing what they are supposed to do. I hang out with them daily.

However, I also know tons of Black men that are not there....period. We have two options.

1. Applaud the ones that are doing great and hope others will join.
2. Put the ones on blast that are not doing great.

Obama chose option 2. I ain't mad at him.

onelove917 · July 7th, 2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibaba

It not about shutting out other voters, it is about, at the bare minimum, acknowledging the black vote and not taking it for granted. And Obama being elected President will give white America another reason to deny the fact that there is still institutional and social racism.

This is another good reason people should have supported Hilary over Obama.

I'm voting for Obama because I want the Republicans out of there but I'm fearing there will be a landslide for McCain. If that is the case, I'd hope the Jackson's and Obama's would give us a break for this action.

True · July 8th, 2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelove917

This is another good reason people should have supported Hilary over Obama.

Are you serious?

onelove917 · July 9th, 2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True

Are you serious?

Yes !

But, I said, I would vote for Obama; so what's you beef ?

dtownbro · July 10th, 2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibaba

It not about shutting out other voters, it is about, at the bare minimum, acknowledging the black vote and not taking it for granted. And Oabma being elected President will give white America another reason to deny the fact that there is still institutional and social racism.

CTJ

Based on what?!?

And gosh do you have a low opinion of the intelligence etc. of the typical black american!!!

But, even if Obama fails to properly address our folks ills, yet another reason for us to return to the basics, as in grassroots politics...

Others expect Obama to be a new messiah:

I just expect him to be an effective elected official...

We continue to suffer because the present fella in the white house isn't!

You wrote:

They will believe that since there is black president then the justice system is working well, corporations do not hire based on zip codes and names, and all black people should pull themselves up by their boot straps despite the fact the majority of white America is living one or two pay checks away from poverty.

CTJ

Again:

Say what?!?

You wrote:

Obama is just another politician, who happens to be black, that thrives on the ignorance of the American electorate who believes that the government has their best interest in mind.

Then that's also a bad reflection of where some (not all) in our midst are revealing about themselves (as in their own apathy and indifference aka their own social and political backwardness)...

All that's just Obama's fault too?

Pulease!

Some will continue to reap what they sow:

Nothing new or news about that either!

FYI...

June 23rd, 2008, 10:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
chibaba Afro Resident Occasional 2Cents Join Date: Mar 2008 Gender: Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts Rep Power: 0 Credits: 751	Michael Dyson responds to Barack Obama Fathers day speech "On father's day, when Barack Obama assailed absent fathers as a critical source of suffering for black communities, he sought two political advantages for the price of one. He embraced a thorny tradition of social thought that says black families are largely responsible for their own troubles. And he was seen in a black church not railing at racism but rebuking his own race. Obama's words may have been spoken to black folk, but they were also aimed at those whites still on the fence about whom to send to the White House. The notion that black families are mired in self-imposed trauma stems from Daniel Patrick Moynihan's 1965 report, in which Moynihan argued that the black family was a "tangle of pathology" whose destruction by slavery had produced female-headed households, absent fathers and high illegitimacy. Interestingly, Martin Luther King Jr. was one of the few Negro leaders who refused to condemn the future New York Senator's report. "The shattering blows on the Negro family have made it fragile, deprived and often psychopathic," King said at the time. "Nothing is so much needed as a secure family life for a people to pull themselves out of poverty and backwardness." But King also insisted that Moynihan's report offered both "dangers and opportunities." The danger was that "problems will be attributed to innate Negro weaknesses and used to justify neglect and rationalize oppression." The opportunity was the chance that the report would galvanize support and resources for the black family. Four decades later, King's misgivings have been realized more than his hopes. Stereotypes about negligent black fathers persist, promoted most vehemently by Bill Cosby, who has embarked on a national crusade against the alleged misbehavior of poor black families. And yet such stereotypes may have little basis in reality. Research by Boston College social psychologist Rebekah Levine Coley found that black fathers not living at home are more likely to keep in contact with their children than fathers of any other ethnic or racial group. Coley offers a more complex view of the causes of absenteeism among black fathers: the failure to live up to expectations to provide for their families--owing to stunted economic and educational opportunities--drives poor black men into despair and away from their families. Such findings undermine the arguments about black fathers' inherent pathology or moral lassitude. These men need jobs, not jabs. Obama's Father's Day speech did tilt gently in that direction: he noted the need for more cops and more money for teachers, for more after-school programs and fewer guns. But he laid most of the blame on black families and fathers, in blunt--and occasionally belittling--terms. He said many of them acted "like boys instead of men." He also said, "Any fool can have a child. That doesn't make you a father. It's the courage to raise a child that makes you a father." The trouble is that the problems Obama identified won't be solved solely through tough talk in black churches. We've heard these themes before. In the 1970s, Jesse Jackson said, "You are not a man because you can make a baby. You're only a man if you can raise a baby, protect a baby and provide for a baby." But like King before him, Jackson understood that one must beat back the barriers that stand in the way of individual initiative. Obama brilliantly cited a Chris Rock routine about black men expecting praise for things they were supposed to do, like stay out of jail and take care of their children. But Rock's humor is so effective because he is just as hard on whites as on blacks. That's a part of the routine Obama has not yet adopted. Obama's rebuff of black fathers and his firm insistence on personal responsibility were calculated to win over socially conservative whites who were turned off by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's tirades against persistent racism. But in his desire to appeal to such voters, Obama may have missed the balance that King maintained. Personal responsibility is a crucial, but only partial, answer to what ails black families. Huge unemployment, racist mortgage practices, weakened child-care support, stunted training programs for blue-collar workers who've been made obsolete by technology, and the gutting of early-childhood learning programs are all forces that must be combated. If we rightly expect more black fathers to stick around to raise their children, we've got to give them a greater opportunity to stay home." Here is the link to the article: Obama's Rebuke of Absentee Black Fathers - TIME

July 3rd, 2008, 07:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
onelove917 Afro Resident Resident Join Date: Jan 2008 Gender: Posts: 132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 12 Posts Rep Power: 0 Credits: 777	The following post by a "jewels0479" elsewhere as post #39 is an excellent response :::: I dont really understand peoples rejection of Obama. I'm not politically savvy so I'm not going to argue his politics but I will say this....He is running for President of United States of America, not the President of Blacks in America. In order to be able to effect the change that we want, he has to appeal to the masses. He won't get elected gearing his entire campaign towards the needs of black people. He would shut out all other voters and the thereby lose the election. That seems like common sense to me. The fact of the matter is that many blacks in America do not want to go back to Africa, they want to co-exist and be treated fairly in AMERICA. I believe that is possible. He may only be half black but he is married to a black woman and his children are black. That says a lot to me because he could have married a white woman who was more beneficial to him in a number of ways. At the end of the day, we are living, working and raising our families in America and we have a choice to make. McCain or Obama. Who will you choose? Also, maybe the naysayers should look at the broader picture. How could Obama being elected the next president HURT black people? If he did nothing at all to help blacks, he has at the very least opened the door for the next black person to be elected president. He has shown young black men that someone who looks like them can run this country. They will then aspire to that and believe that they can realistically achieve that. Belief in self is the catalyst for all achievement so my hat goes off to Obama for painting that picture for our sons to see. Last edited by onelove917 : July 3rd, 2008 at 07:49 PM.

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July 3rd, 2008, 08:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
chibaba Afro Resident Occasional 2Cents Join Date: Mar 2008 Gender: Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts Rep Power: 0 Credits: 751	It not about shutting out other voters, it is about, at the bare minimum, acknowledging the black vote and not taking it for granted. And Oabma being elected President will give white America another reason to deny the fact that there is still institutional and social racism. They will believe that since there is black president then the justice system is working well, corporations do not hire based on zip codes and names, and all black people should pull themselves up by their boot straps despite the fact the majority of white America is living one or two pay checks away from poverty. Obama is just another politician, who happens to be black, that thrives on the ignorance of the American electorate who believes that the government has their best interest in mind.

July 5th, 2008, 07:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
True Afr0 Resident Occasional 2Cents Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Los Angeles Gender: Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 0 Credits: 368	I know a lot of Black men that are doing what they are supposed to do. I hang out with them daily. However, I also know tons of Black men that are not there....period. We have two options. 1. Applaud the ones that are doing great and hope others will join. 2. Put the ones on blast that are not doing great. Obama chose option 2. I ain't mad at him.