What is this 'beast' called capitalism?

[amilcarkabral]

It's not that i lack the understanding of capitalism. it's just that, for a while, i'd like to restrict the discussion to the economic system of capitalism to figure out what it is. Think about it this way, if you're sick for three different reasons, wouldn't it be prudent to attempt to diagnose each disease separately to figure out how each is affecting your body, and then dealing with all three either in turn or at once (depending on the interactions of the three sicknesses)? We can analyze and combat the deleterious effects of capitalism and government incompetence and malice separately. And when they work in concert, we can combat them together.

Don't mistake my short-sighted analytical goals for fundamental mis-understanding of the issues. I know i'm new, and it'll take a while for you gals and guys get used to my analytical, rhetorical methods. I'm still less than a hundred posts into this community. I don't think you'll get my drift until about at least a thousand. And hopefully in the mean time i can study how you respond to what i say fast enough to craft better questions and responses that lead to not only clear understanding of our respective positions, but perhaps communal ground and/or a common analytical method with which to fillet and slay the demons among us.

I know that any government either explicitly or implicitly gives its validation to capitalism. I also know that big business influence in government makes for laws that protect the business interests against that of the citizens, usurping the proper role of government as the entity created to protect citizens from each other, businesses and foreign invasion. But that particular aspect of today's society, where economics runs the government, isn't the topic i'd like to discuss at this point in time, or at least in this thread.

And i don't wish to tell others to not talk about the government. I invited the people who were talking about the AC(I)E/Katrina incident to set up a specific forum/thread for that.

I want to pull apart this beast one cell, hair, limb and organ at a time. Such that when we deconstruct it we know how it ticks, and how to retrain it and/or destroy it such that it cannot impinge upon our health and freedoms.

For now, let's discuss what people think capitalism 'is' and what it 'is not'.

[amilcarkabral]

My man. I agree with much of what you said, but i'm going to have to be on 'radio silence' as my better half becons, and as i'll be traveling hundreds of miles down the east coast to visit my family for the next couple days.

I'll be mulling over my first few days here. I bid you all good health and better parties!!!

[jamesfrmphilly]

Originally Posted by amilcarkabral

It's not that i lack the understanding of capitalism. it's just that, for a while, i'd like to restrict the discussion to the economic system of capitalism to figure out what it is. Think about it this way, if you're sick for three different reasons, wouldn't it be prudent to attempt to diagnose each disease separately to figure out how each is affecting your body, and then dealing with all three either in turn or at once (depending on the interactions of the three sicknesses)? We can analyze and combat the deleterious effects of capitalism and government incompetence and malice separately. And when they work in concert, we can combat them together.

Don't mistake my short-sighted analytical goals for fundamental mis-understanding of the issues. I know i'm new, and it'll take a while for you gals and guys get used to my analytical, rhetorical methods. I'm still less than a hundred posts into this community. I don't think you'll get my drift until about at least a thousand. And hopefully in the mean time i can study how you respond to what i say fast enough to craft better questions and responses that lead to not only clear understanding of our respective positions, but perhaps communal ground and/or a common analytical method with which to fillet and slay the demons among us.

I know that any government either explicitly or implicitly gives its validation to capitalism. I also know that big business influence in government makes for laws that protect the business interests against that of the citizens, usurping the proper role of government as the entity created to protect citizens from each other, businesses and foreign invasion. But that particular aspect of today's society, where economics runs the government, isn't the topic i'd like to discuss at this point in time, or at least in this thread.

And i don't wish to tell others to not talk about the government. I invited the people who were talking about the AC(I)E/Katrina incident to set up a specific forum/thread for that.

I want to pull apart this beast one cell, hair, limb and organ at a time. Such that when we deconstruct it we know how it ticks, and how to retrain it and/or destroy it such that it cannot impinge upon our health and freedoms.

For now, let's discuss what people think capitalism 'is' and what it 'is not'.

is this a test? an exam? if you have something to share why not just give it up?
i am all about a solution but i do not really want to be put back into high school.

please?

[Sasori]

Why even bother attack it like that?

The example in which we use is ingrained in our American system. Theory in what capitalism is will always be different to the practical use of it in this country. It is tailor-made for any system which adopts these ideals... or rather say attempt to adopt these ideals.

Like cancer, it is best to attack all material at once, or it simply festers.

[amilcarkabral]

Methods of analysis can probably be taught somewhat algebraically . . step one do this, step two do that. However, i haven't objectified my thinking process and analysis methods to a level such that i can outline them in steps. There is also the consideration that methods of analysis are context-dependent, meaning the methods of analysis will change based on what level of analysis you're analyzing something (you think differently when you're analyzing on the social level versus the biological level).

Second. Your framing of me 'putting you back into high school' assumes that i think i'm like a guru who thinks he knows the 'truth' or something. First, i do have my ideas, analysis and positions, but i'm open to modifying and adjusting them with either a better analysis and methods. I'm just man, like you, talking to other men trying to figure what's proper and best in any given situation. So instead of the metaphor of school, i'd rather think of this as an investigatory committee.

[amilcarkabral]

Analogously speaking, i interpret that as similar to the question: "why study automotive engineering when you build a faulty car." The response i have is that we have to get to the fundamental levels of analysis in order to either fix the car or build a better one without the flaw.

And if we intend to create another system, or fix this one to our benefit, we need to understand the nature of the beast, and the strategy of our attack. And Sasori i'm also open to figuring out how to attack this system . . . any thoughts?

[jamesfrmphilly]

yea or nay? i am an artist. i make something out of nothing. i create stuff that was not there before.
do i own what i produce? how long? forever? can you copy it or sample it?

itz not complicated.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by amilcarkabral

I've found in many of my dealings with the progressive aspects of the African-American community an aversion to what we think is capitalism. So i'm starting this discussion to start to tease out and identify the nature of this 'beast'. Once we identify it's nature, i'd also like to devise ways to tame it and make capitalism our obedient pet (hunting/guard dog).

So what i'd like to do is explore just what we all think capitalism "is". And what i'll try to do is to the best of my ability to clear up what it is as different from how people are using it.

As a metaphor, any object can be used to build or destroy, and it is not the nature of the tool that is good nor bad, but rather the intentions of the wielder of the object that makes the tool a tool or a weapon. I'm saying that what most people think of as 'capitalism' has been a blend of both intention and object. What i want to do with this discussion is start to tease out the differences between the two, and later, once identified, how we can use this 'object' or 'process' called capitalism to our benefit.

Amilcar

Oxford American Dictionary
Capitalism: An ECONOMIC system in which trade and industry are controlled by private owners.

I needed to start from here. Would try to take it much further explaination wise but have to admit I practically know nothing about how this particular system operates and works.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by amilcarkabral

Analogously speaking, i interpret that as similar to the question: "why study automotive engineering when you build a faulty car." The response i have is that we have to get to the fundamental levels of analysis in order to either fix the car or build a better one without the flaw.

And if we intend to create another system, or fix this one to our benefit, we need to understand the nature of the beast, and the strategy of our attack. And Sasori i'm also open to figuring out how to attack this system . . . any thoughts?

One way for Black folks to kick a hole in it is to stop spending money on what we don't need, stop buyin so much of what we do need, began to reassess what it is we really need in the first place and figure how to provide it for and among ourselves.

Sounds easier said then done but the lack of our money in their pockets cripples the power of their capitalism.

[jamesfrmphilly]

Originally Posted by The Dragon

One way for Black folks to kick a hole in it is to stop spending money on what we don't need, stop buyin so much of what we do need, began to reassess what it is we really need in the first place and figure how to provide it for and among ourselves.

Sounds easier said then done but the lack of our money in their pockets cripples the power of their capitalism.

if all black people spent and circulated our money with other black people we would be one of the wealthiest communities.