can black people be saved by white thought?

[Ifayomi]

Excellent thread, you already know my thoughts
Peace
Ifayomi

[Baba Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Ankhesenamun

I'm new here Baba Ahmed and I am not familiar with your home site. But I do appreciate what you are doing there. I would like to suggest a melding of information from one site to another; not just yours but others as well. Just like we bring articles from the Associated Press to this forum, we can bring teaching aids that would be exclusively geared to our culture.

Nearly all of the "Daily Thoughts" and many of the excerpts posted here are also posted at two other sites; used to be three. Plus I copy & paste from my homesite.

I saw in another one of your posts that you have solicited the moderators for a specific space to this purpose. I'm not volunteering you as a sole teacher, but since you already have the expertise in the how-to of setup, that you might meet with the site owners and organize a special forum just for this purpose.

I appreciate b n called an expert; but I'm far removed from that station. I suggest patience. In the beginning stages of our site, there were fewer than maybe 15 different forums. Now there're over 75. There're probably now many here who're qualified to organize and/or to teach. Example: Auset32 is a professional teacher, whose visited Afrika with one of our most esteemed historians. She also started a thread describing a visit to South Afrika, etc. Click her profile. Then there's saraphen who posted some fine photos of visit to Ghana with family members and I'd bet she can teach. And organize. ;) I named myself a "relay man" and can add stimulator and urger. Not an organizer nor teacher, in its technical sense. Like I said tho, I bleeve there're some already among us.

It could be called "The Classroom" or something of that nature. I'm sure there are many of us here who are interested and would be glad to contribute curriculum as well as learn.

I like the idea; but would shy away for the definite article, "the." I know u don't mean it like that, but its kinda pretenscious.... ya kno? Maybe "An Afrikan Exchange? to imply one of the Nzugo Saba of Kwanzaa, on a continous basis. Whacha think?"

I see this as an epicenter where only our own people would dare to tread; a place exclusively all our own. And if we are a successful proving ground, (which I am sure we would be) the concept will be spread to other Black sites. It has long been a thought of mine that when we found that common thread that binds us together that many small groups would come into being and grow and spread until we all met up with each other, like the ripples in a pond from many rain drops. It would develop very naturally and spontaneously, without the need for specific leaders or labels or groups to lead the way. Please handle it bruh. You have my support and my prayers.

HA! U keep on keep'n on and u will find yourself taking care of the business at hand. Clearly u've ideas; with me it flowed from a "feeling." Tell u what; hit me a PM, I'll tell u who to contact at my home site; I'm sure he'll hook u up with some of the others. OK? Then we can do your thang; how 'bout it?

You are very astute to question my gender. I'm a female. I took my screenname from king tut's wife. Hotep.

Give thanks. Did u run down meaning of the word btween Ankh & Amun? If so please do it again.

Shem hotep.

[BlackQueen7980]

NO! We must think by ourselves,for ourselves if we are ever going to be liberated from white supression!

[blacks_property]

Originally Posted by BlackQueen7980

NO! We must think by ourselves,for ourselves if we are ever going to be liberated from white supression!

i am white but i am agree...

[MadameX]

Originally Posted by Baba Ahmed

White or European thought demonstrates itself in all of the institutions we exist in and under. Its not that vague. DBlack u answered your question as to what is it when u refer to "your knowledge" that comes from your culture.

And any confusions we have indicate why often our actions benefit, not us, but European and other ethnic groups. When its done w/o consciousness it is understandable; but when we do so unaware of the driving forces, lets say of Capitalism then its problematic. I just began a thread on Sex Imperative & Capitalism. Its brief and I intend to post more info on it, but therein are references to Capitalism and the mindsets that formulated what we use daily. Systems are created by people: religion, education, politics, economics, entertainments etc kwk etc all bear stamps of European Cultural Thought and Behavior.

Our very speech says it is of and for European Thought.

That's why I expressed eagerness for someone to step up and with your permission organize a "forum" for us to learn and teach our traditional Afrikan Cosmology, we will see and I hope understand a general 180 degree difference between Afrikan Cultural Thought and EuorCentric Cultural Thought. One reason, generally speaking, historically Black people have much to pat ourselves on the back; for over 500 years we've existed in an alien society of the Western Hemisphere. As we continue to get firm in our peeping this and consciously consistently apply our thoughts and actions in our goals sought, I dare say: LOOK OUT WORLD. As Mayor Washington announced in Chicago: Its our time now.

Brotha Ahmed, your points about Eurocentric/Western Civilization Thought are quite valid. As Black American, we have become fully assimulated into this train of throught while being in captivity and have lost track of who truly are as a people.
In essence, when one engages in African Culture Though/Eastern Civilization,
it is less capitalism center and more holistically centered incorporating mind body soul and spirit.

[Nudimmud9]

I understand what Baba, in particular, is trying to articulate about a Capitalist system in contrast to traditional African living. However, what it’s clear many of you are failing to incorporate into your very critical assessment of capitalism is the difference between certain variables that most come together to create a “SOCIETY.” Long story short, “African Villages, SOMETHING MANY OF YOU LIKE TO REFERENCE, consisted/consist of between a couple dozen to several hundred people. (At the very most a few thousand people.) This changes how you engage in contract in addition to how you can successfully and continually sustain the infa-structure through which and by which contract is established between individuals in that MINI-society. The fact of the matter is, in order to survive on this planet you have to consume. In other words, you have to take something from somewhere, something or someone in order to sustain yourself as a solitary individual. This by its very nature could be considered parasitic as BABA stated in a previous post. The only point at which the parasitic dynamic is negated to some degree is when there is a mutual benefit from the scenario playing itself out between two entities co-existing at the same time in the same space (i.e. CONTRACTUAL/COMMERCIAL AGREEMENTS ESTABLISHING MUTUAL BENEFIT.)

In conclusion, capitalism, while it is being grossly abused in much of the “First World,” is the most practical system through which to run a Mega Metropolitan area of people. The only way to negate this historical precedent over “Communism” or “Socialism” is to dramatically reduce the worlds population by anywhere from ½ to ¾. Then you’re dealing with “PRO-CREATION” being a “right” or a “privilege” given our current technological understanding and innovation folks. THAT’S A WHOLE NOTHER ISSUE THAT WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE TO BE CONTENDED WITH ANYWAY!

Finally, capitalism is not “White-Thought” folks. Capitalism, in it’s current state, is a systematic evolution of human society as it’s grown and subsequently changed since the beginning of “CIVILIZATIONS.” You can have socialist/communist programs within the proverbial fabric of the predominantly capitalist run system (i.e. Sweden and their health care system.) However, you start trying to artificially fix everything in a market place, so that everyone takes and gives an equitable amount and you’re going to have to account for a multitude of variables that are perpetually and constantly changing. In the past, when we’ve tried this, it hasn’t worked well folks.

Bottom line, you got to deal with “WHITE THOUGHT,” as some of you like to call it, if you’re going to establish your own systems. While the African Civilizations many of you are referencing give us a blue-print as to how run certain aspects of a society, there is no blue-print (independent of Ancient Egypt for sure) that tells you how you can successfully run a mega-tropolis. That being said, much of Egypt was the pre-cursor to modern day capitalist systems in place now. How do I know, I know because both Greece and Rome utilized what they learned from the Egyptians to put together their phenomenally successful empires generations hence. The proof is in the pudding folks. You can fight it, or you can learn from history and move from there. How capitalism is practiced is motivated by western European greed. Capitalism itself is not a historically derived western European system. Get the facts straight and then move from there is all I’m saying people. To anything less is foolish and planning to fail in the end.

[The Rat Race]

have to admit that it took me a while to stop laughing when I read some of your posts. It is clear that the frustration of financial instability and lack of economic achievement has resulted in the consideration of seeking alternative means to equality. There is a glaring omission however. Communism has never worked!


Communism works on paper not in reality. The reason why is because the human spirit is far too advanced to be confined to the concept of equality in every aspect. Human beings want to push themselves beyond perceived rules and restrictions. For example it was once thought that the mile could not be run in under 4 minutes. This theory was held for decades and it was true only because individuals believed that it was. Of course we now know that this is not true as the mile is routinely run in under 4 minutes.


The point here people is simple. This country has a horrific history of inequities and crimes perpertrated by those in power (usually white) against those who were not in power (usually non whites). This country has been driven by the desire to own land. Because land ownership brings rights of transferable wealth. I will not get into the entire history and methods used by the white man to obtain and maintain his strangle hold on the land in this country. With land ownership comes the ability to own/create/lease out space for business and collect revenue in the process. This is a system that has been in place for over 400 years. Do you really think that this is going to change? I suppose a better question would be this: What do you think would be easier? Changing the system or learning how to benefit from the system?

I submit to you that the latter is the more effective approach. I have read this particular subject matter and that of other posts on this site and it occurs to me that we are getting closer to some real answers. Black folks, we have got to stop ignoring some glaring truths about ourselves. We also have to understand that the damage that has been done by the oppresive system in which we have lived. But we also have to turn the corner. By that I mean we must understand the past because it does relate to our present and if it remains unchanged our future will be no brighter. Being oppressed and frustrated is not good enough anymore.


Everyday I hear the lamentations of Black folks in America. I feel the pain and I see it in our eyes and then I am stunned when I hear that many of us want to "build our own buisness" and yet it is so obvious that we don't have a clue about what it takes to do exactly that. Guys we can either bitch about the system or learn how to use it to our advantage. I read earlier that captilistic endeavors are viewed as "white thought". As NUDIMMUD9 pointed out other cultures including Black cultures have prospered under capitilistic systems yet you will struggle to name one that has prospered under communism.

Anyways even if you believe that captilism equals "white thought" you would have to also believe that the system, though full of of hypocrisy and painted with the blood of those who are in need, you would have to also acknowledge that the "American system" of capitilism has been quite effective for those who understand its inner workings.


"Know thy enemy". It is a fact that the same thing that makes us strong also makes us weak. The system that we all live under is no different. We fear wealth in our community because it is a foreign concept. At one point we feared books too because we were not allowed to read for fear of punishment. Incidentally this attitude still has a strong pressence in our community and I believe that is one of the reasons that some of us struggle academically. It should also be mentioned that academic achievement is not a pre-requisite for success. However it helps. Anyways. A simple rule of combat and business to understand what the enemy/competition is doing better than you are.


If you understand this you will be able to use their own rules against them. We need look no further than the Asian immigrant for this. Jews have also prospered because they understand the system. We too understand the system but we are usually victims of the system. We need to understand that we can turn this around now but it is going to take a completly different type of thought.

Do not fear the system. Learn to use it. I know how to use it and so does Nudimudd9. It is a different path for sure but we will be the ones who have the means to make change when our next surge comes. Even if you have no interest or you are actively plotting against this system I beg of you to take a look and truly understand this system from the other side. Once we leave the victim role mentally our achivement as a people is a mere stones throw away.

For my part I am going to share with you all some very personal experiences that I have endured while trying to achieve. It is in my trials and tribulations that I hope you all will be able to understand that this system is one that will work for us. Once we have built the capital we can buy change. Change will only come when those who can, pay for it.

[MadameX]

Originally Posted by The Rat Race

. Change will only come when those who can, pay for it.

From the tone of your quote, I can see you're a capitalist. Just keep this in mind. Money is the root of all evil. While money talks, walks! :)

[jamesfrmphilly]

Originally Posted by The Rat Race

Communism has never worked

seems to work pretty good for the Chinese..........

[Baba Ahmed]

No matter how many different interpretations are given about the merits of Capitalism, upon a cursory glance including knowledge of the "secrets" inherent in it, no has solved nor will anyone ever solve its innate drive to consciously create and maintain a low and low-income class.

And as long as its controlled by Europeans and their clones, and it has been for far too long, Black people will remain the last hired and the first fired.

Aside from that the nature and structure of Capitalism, whether Europeans and or Black faced Europeans design it following its present theories and practices, demands the very life blood of its participants.

It is a way of thinking that sees everything possible as commodities. There is something in its viewpoint of life that creates a different mindset; a mindset that loses humane qualities. Example in spite of the fact that we see, not so much today, grand announcements of increased numbers of available jobs the fact is that per Capitalistic driven labor language, FULL EMPLOYMENT does not mean jobs for all needing work. No. Full Employment means that a certain percentage of people are unemployed. When examined last each 1% meant millions of jobless peoples!

Can it be changed? That is can it, including its parasitical practices of compound interests, be transformed sans its present concepts of full employment and use of compound interests and hidden taxes?