Women In Islam are taught female inferiority

[It's Meeee]

MEN'S SUPERIORITY

The Qur'an expresses the equality of the works of the sexes and the oneness of origin of the sexes in the following verses.


"And their Lord answereth them, 'I will not suffer the work of him among you that worketh, whether of male or female, to be lost. The one of you is the issue of the other." (Q. 3:195) Rodwell.
"Mankind fear your Lord, who created you of a single soul, and from it created its mate." (Q. 4:1) Arberry

So while the Qur'an holds the works of men and women in equal regard and acknowledges that they are completely interdependent as to their very existence, they are not regarded as having equal worth as people. The men are a step above the women and superior to them as is clear from the following two verses.


"And it is for the women to act as they (the husbands) act by them, in all fairness; but the men are a step above them."[7] (Q. 2:228) Rodwell "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other."(Q. 4:34) Dawood.
The famous commentator Ibn Kathir commented on (Q. 4:34) saying:


"Men are superior to women, and a man is better than a woman."[8]
Other commentators such as Razi, Baidawi, Zamakhshari, and Tabari are of the same opinion.

Razi, commenting on Q. 4:11, said:


"(The males share is that of two females). Man is more perfect than the woman in creation, and intelligence, and in the religious sphere, such as the suitability to be a judge, and a leader in worship. Also, the testimony of the man is twice that of the woman. So that whoever is given great responsibilities must be given correspondingly great privileges. As the woman is deficient in intelligence and of great lust, if she is given much money, much corruption will be the result. "[9]
He also added:


"The male is mentioned first in Q. 4:11 because the male is better than the female."[10]
This superiority according to Razi is due to mens natural superiority in "knowlege and power, and because the man gives his wife the dowry and spends on her."[11]

A modern writer said about the previous verse:


"God established the superiority of men over women by the above verse (the Qur'an 4:34) which prevents the equating of men and women. For here man is above the woman due to his intellectual superiority and his ability to administer and spend on the woman."[12]
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WOMEN'S DEFICIENCIES

1. WOMEN ARE DEFICIENT IN INTELLIGENCE AND RELIGION

The intellectual and religious deficiencies of women are stated in the following Hadith found in Sahih al-Bukhari which is considered by Muslim scholars to be "The most authentic book after the Book of Allah (ie. the Qur'an)":[13]


"Allah's Apostle once said to a group of women : 'I have not seen any one more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious, sensible man could be led astray by some of you.' The women asked: 'O Allah's Apostle, what is deficient in our intelligence and religion?' He said: 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said: 'This is the deficiency of your intelligence' ... 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said: 'This is the deficiency in your religion.'"[14]
The authenticity of the above Hadith is undisputed. It is reported by the two most reliable collections of Hadith; Bukhari and Muslim. The agreement of Bukhari and Muslim on its authenticity makes it (mutafaqun 'alayhi) 'agreed upon', which is the highest degree of authenticity. The above Hadith has been accepted and used by eminent scholars, such as Ghazali, Ibn al-'Arabi, Razi, Suyouti, Qortobi, Nawawi, and Ibn Kathir, in their writings.

The above Hadith does not describe women only in early Islam, but it is a description for all times, so long as 'women can neither pray nor fast during their menses' and so long as 'the evidence of two women is equal to the witness of one man.' This reasoning is not a temporary one, but is rooted in and derived from the Qur'an for all time until the day of resurrection.

Commenting on the Qur'anic verse Q. 30:21 which states "And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you may repose in them" Razi said:


"His saying 'created for you' is a proof that women were created like animals and plants and other useful things, just as the Most High has said 'He created for you what is on earth' and that necessitates the woman not to be created for worship and carrying the Divine commands. We say creating the women is one of the graces bestowed upon us and charging them with Divine commands to complete the graces bestowed upon us, not that they are charged as we men are charged. For women are not charged with many commands as we are charged, because the woman is weak, silly, in one sense she is like a child, and no commands are laid upon a child, but for the grace of Allah upon us to be complete, women had to be charged so that they may fear the torment of punishment and so follow her husband, and keep away from what is forbidden, otherwise corruption would be rampant."[15]
Another eminent Muslim thinker, Hadi Sabzevari, in his commentary on Sadr al-Mote'alihin wrote:


That Sadr ad-Deen Shirazi classifies women as animals is a delicate allusion to the fact that women, due to the deficiency in their intelligence and understanding of intricacies, and due to their fondness of the adornments of the world, are truly and justly among the mute animals [al-haywanti al-sa^mita]. They have the nature of beasts [ad-dawwa^b], but they have been given the disguise of human beings so that men would not be loath to talk to them and be compelled to have sexual intercourse with them. That is why our immaculate Law [shar'ina al-mutahhar] takes men's side and gives them superiority in most matters, including divorce, "nushuz," etc. (Quoted in Soroush, Abdolkarim, _Farbehtar az ideoloji_, Sera^t, Tehran, 1373 A.H.S.). [A.H.S. = After the Hegira, in Solar years].
The above is consistent with the authentic Hadith that says women are deficient in intelligence and religion. This belief has been accepted by Muslim scholars and writers for the past thirteen hundred years.


One modern writer said: "The woman's share of intellect does not reach man's level."[16]
He then went on to say that "al-'Aqad, one of the most eminent Arabic writers, in his book al-Mar'ah wal-Qur'an,


"has a valuable chapter in which 'Aqad demolished the intellectual equality of women and men."[17]
As a matter of fact the expression "naqisatan 'aqlan wa dinan" (deficient in intelligence and religion) is one of the bywords and axioms of life on the lips of the masses in Arabic countries.
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2. WOMEN ARE DEFICIENT IN GRATITUDE

Women are not only deficient in intelligence, but they also lack gratitude. Women's lack of gratitude is expressed in another Hadith from Bukhari:


"Women are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favours and the good (charitable) deeds done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you."[18]
So according to this Hadith, women are not only intellectually and spiritually deficient but also deficient in gratitude.

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3. WOMEN ARE DEFICIENT AS WITNESSES

The testimony of the woman is not equal to that of the man. Her testimony is half the testimony of the man with regard to financial matters. The Qur'an states,


"And call in to witness two witnesses, men; or if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witness as you approve of, that if one woman errs the other will remind her."[19]
An educated Muslim woman in trying to explain why the testimony of the woman is half that of the man said,


'Woman was made to bear and feed children. Therefore she is very emotional. And she is forgetful, because if she did not forget how it is to give birth she would not have another child. That is why she will not be as reliable a witness as a man."[20]
Therefore in Islam, the woman is perceived as being deficient in three important areas: to others due to her denial of man's kindness; to herself, due to her inadequate intelligence; and in relation to God, due to her inadequacy in religion.


http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html#sup

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It just goes on and on with this demeaning doctrine that those savages are bred in and adhere to. This is the madness of Islamic doctrine that any SANE woman would resist. This is the evil they have unleashed in the world and then some. Again, no civilized woman could ever prefer this type of doctrine that enslaves womankind.

Click on the link below as it has more of this deranged philosophy that is bred in those deranged, satanic possessed males. They are madmen.




http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html

[sumayyah]

None of the Muslims I know, including myself as of recently, demean women. I'm still learning more about it, but if you are interested, I invite you to another board so that you may meet some of them.....

http://www.ummah1421.com

[It's Meeee]

Originally Posted by toylin

None of the Muslims I know, including myself as of recently, demean women. I'm still learning more about it, but if you are interested, I invite you to another board so that you may meet some of them.....

http://www.ummah1421.com

Hi Toylin, long time no hear from. Glad you re-emerged. :) See the issue isn't whether there are nice 'muslims.' The issue is, the damnable, demeaning words written and unfortunately, acted upon by males throughout the muslim world. Mainly, middle easterners and Africans. The fact is, "Islmaic" law is interpreted in this sexist manner and lifted up as the 'Will of Allah". Males and unfortunately, females are bred with this material. That is the danger. As we see, from many of the middle eastern and African nations who practice Islam women are treated in accordance with these sexist laws and interpretations of laws.

So understand, nothing against geniune people who take some of the positive stuff written and practice it, but as a woman I must withstand, denounce and oppose dangerous, reckless, writings exalted against the female gender, in the name of religion. The key being, 'in the name of religion' is all this written and acted on and that is evil danger that keeps womankind sorely afflicted. It's a literal 'curse' to keep womankind bound up. Whereas the true will of God, always promotes liberty, respect, equality and freedom for womankind aka female/Adam.

In other words, it's not an attack on the religion of Islam rather on the sexist laws erected in the name of Islam. Every woman who believes she is made in 'God's Image' as a Divine being worthy of respect, equality, dignity must withstand this evil that would negate her human rights and force her to bow to the ill-wll of demented males.

Oh, feel free to invite those muslim males over to discuss these sexist laws that they may NOT act upon but the laws of Islam gives them the right to act upon, which again, is where the evil and danger lies.

[sumayyah]

I truely understand what you are saying. Really, I do. We debate all day long about certain issues on that board. What happens is that people will take things out of context and us them for evil. Almost ALL major religions have done this. Some laws that were written in the holy books to protect women gave way to laws that enslave or demean women.

The website you listed, just about everything the author quotes is a misquote and/or taken out of historical context. Wahhabism is one of the strictest sects of Islam (towards women). Taliban rule was based on taking benign protection laws and turning them into modern day slavey laws. The other problem is that some people will take hadith (sayings of The Prophet (pbuh)) and use that to justify there views. Unfortunately, some hadith is wild and some totally contradict the Qu'ran. And after hadith, you have scholarly imams handing down fatwa, which are basically just rulings/decisions that they have made about certain subjects that are not addressed directly in either al-Qu'ran or hadith.

Question: Have you read the Qu'ran? I'm jst curious. One of the earliest things I did was compared the Qu'ran to the Bible. Reading the Bible cover to cover and then reading the Qu'ran cover to cover... I almost lost my faith (in religion) completely. There are some sick, sad things in those books.

Mainly, one thing that I have learned is that sometimes it is better to follow a faith rather than a religion. The basic tenets of Islam are agreeable. Some of the Islamic laws have been confused with traditional Arabic customs, and that is where a BIG problem lies. Unfortunately, I am not schooled enough in history so I am unable to offer you more information. The thing other thing I can suggest to you is that you read the Qu'ran for yourself, and draw yourown conclusion.

Your sister in Spirit,

Toylin

[It's Meeee]

Hi Toyland, listen I truly understand where you are coming from in that you have read the Quran' and found a 'faith' and a 'peace'. That's fine for all those who take the good out of the Quran which by the way, I have a copy of.

However, my point is this. Islam as practiced by muslim nations, be they extremist and mainstream is sexist and demeans women.

I have much respect for you and your intelligence and the honorable way that you and decent muslims choose to practice your religion. Yet, the fact is, the 'laws' are on the books that subjugate womankind. Christianity once distorted the Bible to subjugate, demean and violate women. However, women in the U.S. region arose and broke those damnable laws, just trampled them underfoot.

Islam teaches male superiority. That is a joke, a sinister diabolical lie. If anything it's just the opposite. Remember according to the Genesis account where muslims claim to adhere to, it was the man's sick *** who was 'incomplete' and needed a 'help-mate' (Gen. 2:20-22). Now women could run with that Scripture and teach 'woman superiority' and we'd have that Biblical Scripture to back it up if we wanted to be dirty like that (Gen. 2:20-22). That type of distortion is the way those so and so's pulled off sexism and violence against women. We could also point out that the Bible says, the 'ANTI-CHRIST WILL BE AGAINST WOMEN' so showing up such patriarchy, sexist ANTI-THE TRUE GOD madness for what it is (Dn. 11:37). Not to mention we could show that the Bible speaks of WOMEN SUPERIORITY in as much as the garden of Eden incident had the 'woman' 'confessing her sin' whereas the Adam/man showed himself a lying coward who blamed the woman and God (Gen. 3:12-14).

As so, God's wrath struck out against the man, whereas God defended the woman in as much as God told the serpent that the 'woman that he thought to bring down' would be the same 'woman who would bring him down' (Gen. 3:15). This God did because the woman showed herself true to form woman enough to confess her sins, whereas Adam man's refusal to do so, wrought his complete dismissal from the salvation plan and a Second Adam = Jesus Christ whose Hebrew name is Yeshua Hamashiach came forth to do what the first Adam failed to do and that is hold his ground and protect his woman. Oh yeah, that's the true facts behind the Genesis account that is not told by a sexist false Christian male hierarchy and a false Muslim, sexist, barbaric, male established patriarchies.

The fact is, the true message in the Bible is repeatedly woman superiority as the key to bring forth the Redeemer. The woman is seen in Revelation with the Sun wrapped about her and the moon and stars at her feet (Rev. 12:1). Oh yeah, we're talking a spirituality that is all about WOMAN'S SUPERIORITY if we women wanted to play it that way. Indeed, oop there it is! We could run ramshod over their sorry so and so's but women are more decent and would not do that whereas patriarchy, sexist so-called religions did just that and great was/is the massacre, and hindrance of womankind.


I bring up the Genesis Bible account because believe it or not, Islam claims the same origin in as much as they claim to be the seed of Ishamel, Abraham's son. Isn't that sumptin'? The fact is, women worldwide are left subjected to abuse because of the sexist laws within the Quran. Again, women can be BEATEN is wrong.

As well, you may say his interpretation is wrong, but the fact is, the QUOTES mind you are directly from the Quran. No woman is safe as long as such laws exist to violate and demean her. All the middle eastern and African nations violate women to the extreme. I want no laws on any book that would subject womankind to violation at the hands of a male. I believe in equality and justice for all, male and female, made God THEM and gave THEM power over all the earth. (Gen. 1:26).

Woman liberation from all male rule is as vital to fight for as it was for our black ancestors to fight for liberation from white enslavement as well as fighting today for liberation from Muslim enslavment just like blacks in Africa did in many parts.

Again, I reitierate, I well understand the 'beauty' of Islam as you choose to accept it but as a woman, any rule on any book that constrains, violates, assaults, demeans the female gender, I must oppose.

My motto = Power to Womankind, and let the Matriarchy be Born!

[DBlack]

Your are twising the words of the Qraan. If that's true, then the same can be said about Chrisitianity and many other forms of religion.

Every muslim I have had the pleasure of knowing do not treat there women as immature or inferior.

People should be careful in judging other religions. That's why I don't post much in this forum, because I am overly sensitive on issues that have very little to do with material facts as we understand them.

Islam like many other religions can be questioned by man. But believers of any religion know that they are NOT to question their faith. So as outsiders, we should walk softly when trying to judge other religions.

[It's Meeee]

Originally Posted by DBlack

Your are twising the words of the Qraan. If that's true, then the same can be said about Chrisitianity and many other forms of religion.

Every muslim I have had the pleasure of knowing do not treat there women as immature or inferior.

People should be careful in judging other religions. That's why I don't post much in this forum, because I am overly sensitive on issues that have very little to do with material facts as we understand them.

Islam like many other religions can be questioned by man. But believers of any religion know that they are NOT to question their faith. So as outsiders, we should walk softly when trying to judge other religions.

"Twisting the command?" Ha! What part of 'YOU MAY BEAT HER," am I twisting?

What part of "Men are superior to women" am I twisting?

The fact is, with such damnable, demeaning laws in the book, I don't care how they act, it's that such a thing is written allegedly as the 'will of Allah' towards women. As so, that gives man the right to do it, and it oppresses woman because she believes she's worthy of being beaten. She believes she is inferior.

Are you blind? You don't see those twisted, retarded, primitive, downright savage Islamic and African nations downtrodding the women? Beating, torturing, killing, violating them in unspeakable manners? Oh come on that's and you know it!

I am no more twisting the truth about such damnable ideology as I would be if I were speaking on the damnable ideology of white supremacist that once wrote in the Constitution of the U.S. that 'blacks were 3/5 a person' and therefore worthy of enslavement.

As you well know, they acted on that principle and to this day, their libraries are full of the old text that elaborated on that demonic principle denouncing blacks in all areas of life as being 'inferior.' The key to our liberation came when that evil was purged from the Constitution. It also came as many of those books were taken out of the school curriculum no longer to be bred in all the children of the U.S who went through the educational system.

In like manner, the Islamic world is bred in this same binding, oppressive 'inferiority' doctrine but because it is towards the female gender and wrapped in religion, (which by the way, so was the white's demonic teachings of inferiority) you after all we've been through as a people, male and FEMALE, blind yourself to that reality only to praise another group that oppresses NOT your gender just the FEMALES? Shameful!

[sumayyah]

Here's an article I got in my email this morning....

From: "Jawed Anwar" <jawed@muslimsweekly.com>

Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 6:46 PM

Subject: Status of Women in Islam

> Link:

http://magic-city-news.com/article_2694.shtml

Status of Women in Islam
By Noor Al Haqq
Jan 6, 2005, 08:23

"Why is it that so many women who have been born and brought in Europe and America are willing to reject their 'liberty' and 'independence' to embrace a religion that supposedly oppresses them and is widely assumed to be prejudicial to them?"
This is a question that I found on one of the sites while surfing around, and I found it an interesting question and which I'd like to draw this article around.

Can Islam be prejudice to women, and yet appeal to women? Can Islam lower the status of a woman and still have more women embracing it as their way of life than men? According to an article written by Lucy Berrington in the Times Magazine (London) dated 9th Nov. 1993: "It is even more ironic that most British converts should be women, given the widespread view in the west that Islam treats women poorly. In the United States, women converts outnumber men by four to one, and in Britain make up the bulk of the estimated 10, 000 to 20, 000 converts, forming part of a Muslim community of 1 to 1.5 million "

How can the case of those women be explained?!

Well, I could say that there are only one of two choices that one can decide upon. Either all those women who choose Islam don't know what they are doing or that they discovered Islam is not prejudice to them as others have yet to discover.

New convert to Islam since September 11, US Navy petty officer, Heather Ramaha.

"Islam gives us Elevation; not Degradation"

In the Noble Quran Allah (Arabic word for God) says:

"Mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you in the Sight of Allah is the believer who has Taqwa (i.e. piety and righteousness)and loves Allah most. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware."

"I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other (3:195)"

On the light of those verses, Islam declares that it has not come to disadvantage women, but in fact has been revealed to elevate women ever since 1400 years ago, when women in many parts of the world and especially in the western societies were considered objects that are owned and with little to no rights in the society they live in.

Before any other religion or system in the world Islam gave a woman the right to inherit, the right to vote and voice her opinion, the right to trade invest and improve herself financially, the right to own - buy and sell, the right to seek knowledge and have a good education, the right to work and has even gone further to oblige the males in every stage of her life, whether it was a father, brother or husband ... It's their duty before God to take care of her, to spend on her, to provide her with the food , clothing and shelter that she needs, to provide her with a good education, to protect her from anything that can harm her and to never hesitate to put their lives in stake for her if the need calls them to do so. "As a modern westerner with a career, of course I had to look into Islam's attitude to women - I couldn't be oppressed all of a sudden. But I discovered that it is pro-women and pro-men; in Islam, women had the right to vote in the year 600. Men dress modestly, !
women dress modestly; neither should flirt with the eyes, but rather they should lower their gaze. I think it's unhealthy to flaunt your sexuality - it attracts the wrong energy back." (MTV Presenter Kristiane Backer after being a Muslim) "Since I called myself a feminist, my early reading centered around women in Islam. I thought Islam oppressed women. In my Women's Studies courses I had read about Muslim women who were not allowed to leave their homes and were forced to cover their heads. Of course I saw hijab as an oppressive tool imposed by men rather than as an _expression of self-respect and dignity. What I discovered in my readings surprised me. Islam not only does not oppress women, but actually liberates them, having given them rights in the 6th century that we have only gained in this century in this country: the right to own property and wealth and to maintain that in her name after marriage; the right to vote; and the right to divorce." (Karima Slack, an American!
feminist from secular humanism to Islam)

Some Muslim societies today lack those values. Some people may rightly ask then, why do we see some Muslim societies lacking those values? There is a beautiful and very true example I heard from a lecture by an American Muslim called Khaled Yaseen, who said that every person can be a father; but if a father does not turn out to be a good father then it's not fatherhood that we would blame. Similarly, Islam is a rule and order. A Muslim who does not act according to that rule and order then by all means its not Islam that should carry the blame.

Karla, a young Blonde haired Blue eyed young American from Washington DC who is a recent convert to Islam said in an interview made with her:

The main question people seem to ask, is "How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam--a religion that oppresses women?" They are quick to try and equate the rights of women in Afghanistan with the rights of Muslim women everywhere. Basically, what I tell them, is that the Qur'an gives women more rights than the Bible does--in print. That was one of the things that first drew me to Islam. Unfortunately today, Islam is no longer the leader in women's rights. I had a choice--deny what I believe (i.e. that There is only one God, and that Muhammed is a Prophet of God)...or accept what I believe, but work to change the problems that exist within the Muslim community. I chose the latter.

In the world today, one could say that the Taliban government in Afghanistan have been considered as the top example of Women Oppression in Islam. But what's ironic is that even when a woman falls captive in the hands of those supposedly most hateful men in the world, Islam does not fail to win her heart.

Yvonne Ridley is an award-winning journalist of more than 25 years standing and author of two books, In The Hands of the Taliban and Ticket to Paradise. She has spent the last 10 years working for several prestigious Fleet Street newspapers including The Sunday Times, The Observer, The Independent on Sunday and The Sunday Express. She has also expanded into television and radio producing several documentaries from Iraq and Afghanistan. Yvonne hit the headlines in September 2001 when while working for the Daily Express she crossed illegally into Afghanistan and was subsequently held captive by the Taliban for 11 days. Following her release, she read the Qur'an as she had agreed to during her captivity, and converted to Islam in the summer of 2003.

Last but not least I would like to conclude by the blessed sayings of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:

"It is the generous (in character) who is good to women, and it is the wicked who insults them."

"The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and best of you are those who are best to their wives."

"Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."

© Copyright 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 by Magic City Morning Star

Link:

http://magic-city-news.com/article_2694.shtml
Jawed Anwar
Editor in Chief
Muslims Weekly
Website: www.muslimsweekly.com

[It's Meeee]

Hi Toylin, interesting article, thanks for sharing. However, let me say this, it doesn't explain away the 'you may beat her' and 'men are superior' passages rather it just shows the contradiction of the whole matter. Now, I don't come at Islam in a judgmental way as a Christian, I look at it as a liberated woman who don't want any male telling me what God said, "I'm inferior and must subjugate myself to a male.' I say this as a married woman who believes in equality. Masculinity and feminity working side by side.

Womankind exists, we are made in the likeness of God as God is both masculine and feminine. We are to be respected and have no 'male' limitations put on us PERIOD! Islam and all the patriarchies are anti-God in that they seek to oppress the woman. Again, you cannot explain away the TRUTH that Islam allows 'beating of the women' and promote 'male superiority' as there it is written in black and white.

Why those western women convert? They perish for a lack of knowledge. They don't know the TRUTH about who they are before God/Goddess. Listen, as children we who were reared with fathers in the home we were already given our values. When we become adults no rules of dress or ideas or anything else should be foisted upon us as women. Plain and simple. To do otherwise is to subjugate us to the will of men, that's bondage.

Again, if women want to come under the yoke of Islam that's fine and good, but tell me the truth, what about women who don't? Are we ALL as the article alludes 'ungodly' women? Because that's what it is saying. If we don't go by their rules we are immoral and that is wrong.

The article tries to push off male oppression as that of extremists but the reality is, mainstream Islam, if you will, oppresses women. As long as there is a law on the book that says, 'women can be beaten,' 'men are superior' then that law is itself an oppressive danger to womankind, PERIOD!

The article alludes some men don't act on the negative, yeah but the danger is, they are licensed via their religion to act on the negative. It's like the white racist who said, some whites didn't enslave, true enough but slavery existed and whites whether they approved of it or not, allowed it to exist as a law on the books that some whites did act on.

Another thing, the converts in the article talked of the liberty Islam gave women. Well, liberty isn't any religion's place to give if you ask me. We are born into this world free to do what we will. If we are raised in loving homes as many of us were then our parents already taught us the basic rules of right and wrong, so when religion rears it's head and says, 'here are the rules of liberty we give you' that is wrong, sinister, devious.

Just look at the primitive tribes (hunter/gatherer) that still exists in Africa and South America. Those who have had no contact with white racists, they live how they want to live. For sure, uncovered and all. In a sense, they know more freedom than any that have come into contact with patriarchy religions and they are mirrors into yesteryear as to how humanity really lived. No binding oppressive rules that man says, 'God told him about women.' In fact, there were entire matriarchy societies in Africa, where men and women lived in equality until Islamic males came in and destroyed and enslaved all who were not like them.

Now again, those who choose to take the good out of Islam and act good fine, I have no qualms whatsoever with them. However, I cannot blind myself to Islam in practice. Just look at those cloaked, beaten, defeated women throughout the MIddle East who have to get permission from a male to do anything. Most of the males in that wretched land regularly beat the women. Women are separated by sex and their gender is cursed as that which is bad. If the converts choose to blind themselves to that reality and worse, base their conversion on erroneous information concerning other religions, so be it. As said, they perish for a lack of knowledge.