Racial segregation

[Sasori]

Originally Posted by SchoolofSoul

All four of which are groups that have integrated with varying levels of success in much of the rest of the country. NYC isn't always the best gauge of race relations in the US.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a self-imposed, voluntary segregation by some communities of color is necessarily a bad thing; it can be very beneficial, and I would hope that any self-imposed segregation would result in a stronger, wealthier, more improved community (not to mention one that's more politically powerful). Personally, I would like to see a real strengthening of Black communities nationwide, in all areas of life. But let's not pretend that legal segregation was a positive thing. While it did have an upside in some respects internally within the community, because it was enforced from outside the community, it kept Black folks under a boot heel of government oppression, and I can't see why anyone would want that back.

Voluntary social segregation and integration are going to happen as times change and as people change, naturally. That's just a part of human nature. What isn't natural is for governments to legally impose racial segregation (or integration, quite frankly) on anyone.

Only using the latino community in NY, the others are in most urban cities nationally

For the most part, isn't this about it done self imposed or in spite of governmental leglislation? Since we could only use before and after in the case of civil rights, and what is evident to our culture through integration and assimilation into general culture.

My examples are for the fact without governmental controls as these are. I believe all these concerns could be addressed without integration as we have it now, it not only forces the community to supply their own answers to the various problems, it develops the cohesion which we all talk about because it will be a solution by our own means and in respect as it shows especially in the Judaic community, equates with the power which comes from a united block nationally.

Imagine how our foreign policy is enacted with Israel because of their solid base in the states and how all support Africa receives from the US [If any] is treated with strings while China which is currently developing as partners while receiving a portion of the natural resources due to that partnership. This was only done because of the pressure each politician receives when dealing with that battle on both fronts...

[dtownbro]

At least one notable black NPR reporter also alleges that the gap between less off and well off blacks has gotten bigger too:

So are we kidding ourselves via forums like this we as a people were or are of one mind et al to begin with?

I kinda sorta doubt it at this late date!

Further feedback about that is badly needed and wanted too...

FYI...

Later...

[onelove917]

"Segregation" was and is the verbal symbol of the system that was set up to hold us down. The rigid rules, harassment, & terrorism of the past are often placed under the term, "segregation" !

In fact, there was no "segregation" here (just like there was no "apartness" Apartheid in South Africa) because whites were in contact with blacks continually.

Even intimately - remember Strom Thurman and his black maid. Mr. Thurman preached segregation in public (maybe even helping this way to get some black men lynched ? ) while impregnating his black maid in private. Could the maid have said "no" without being hounded out of state, even lynched ?

In truth, what was really going on was white supremacy through controlled contact. But, people called it "segregation."

And, I think calling the oppression we had to fight "segregation" lead many to become integration happy; to feel that every where whites are I must be and if I'm not, I'm hurt.

This is not to say I'm against the legal right to go where I want to. But, having the right to go over there and needing to go there are two different things.

I think we should use de facto separation when appropriate. I mean, all types of separation are not bad. For example: Chinese have their own banks, and these have helped them to get ahead. While we are still begging the white banks to please be fair, they often don't even fool with them. Maybe we should stop fooling with them too ?

In the South, we have our own colleges, and even at the high school level, many black kids are taught by black teachers. And, I once picked up that black children in the South are the best educated and proper in behavior, of American black folk. I really think some kids should not even have to deal with whites until they are an adult because of how racist whites are. I know people who will hate me for life but I don't want my kid to know them.

Personally, I would love to expand the black College system to other parts of the nation.

All over the nation, we maintain our own Churches. And, many of us recognize that we would not even be here today without the Black Church. It is a vital institution that we should not abandon just yet and we need such an institution that caters to black needs. I'm not against integrated Churches and there are mixed couples at my AME Church. But, I don't think a total loss of the black Church should come about until racism is dead. Until then, we need the Black Church and the same can be said for other black institutions too whether we already have them or whether we need to create them !!!

[dtownbro]

Good morning...

And welcome to this forum...

But while there were exceptions:

I continue to believe the earlier label does fit...

I. e., it was about the segregating of the white and nonwhite folk, whenever and whereever possible, lest the one (white) group realize some of them were as much in the 'have not' category as some of the nonwhites...

No telling what would've happened next if their ignorance etc. about that had been replaced with true knowledge as to how they were being exploited to at the time...

Etc.

Otherwise:

Good points!

Good post!

FYI...

Later...

Peace...

[Istlota]

The black church has enormous potential -- economically, politically, and spiritually - for liberating black people in general and America in particular. America, all of America, not just black America, needs to be liberated from the godless cabal who control all three branches of our immoral federal government.

But, that potential of the black church now lies untapped. It serves no useful purpose, right now, for us to praise the black church because, right now, it is a hindrance, not a help, to the struggle for justice.

Even preachers with as much potential as Jeremiah Wright end up focusing on trying to get a black man elected as head of the Beast when our needs would be better served if he worked on bringing down that Beast no matter who happened to be wearing its ten crowns.

We are to blame for this. Our churches and pastors reflect out own failures. We, collectively, are focused upon making money, paying bills, pursuing pleasure, and avoiding pain. And, the same shortsightedness is reflected in our black churches and pastors.

During the 60s, when the black church had its most shining moment, it was a case of a lot of black folks, not all, but definitely a quorum, deciding we had had just about enough of Jim Crow. Whenever we, as a people, can come together in such a way to struggle for justice [not revenge] the Divine One will ALWAYS raise up a King or Shuttlesworth or Mandela or Biko or Gandhi or someone else whose name no one even knows yet to lead the struggle. And, as in the 60s, He will raise up whites, browns, and Asians to fight with us.

But, first, we who were birthed in this time and in this place for an Express Purpose have to cleanse ourselves of the cancer which has spread so rapidly within the hearts and minds of the children of the woman clothed in the sun.

Peace, peace, peace.

[dtownbro]

Good afternoon, my dear acquaintance and friend...

Also as you know by now I love a challenge...

But to those who are not scholars of the Bible etc. you may well be (writing) talking over their heads....

And as was (or is) rule number one of the activists of my generation :

You gotta be able to break it all down, so that the general reader comes away after having read the words and do get a sense of the meaning behind them, hence weigh the pros and cons of your feelings/thoughts/opinions, etc.

Do keep that in mind as well...

FYI...

More forthcoming...

Take care...

Later...

Peace...

Originally Posted by Istlota

The black church has enormous potential -- economically, politically, and spiritually - for liberating black people in general and America in particular. America, all of America, not just black America, needs to be liberated from the godless cabal who control all three branches of our immoral federal government.

But, that potential of the black church now lies untapped. It serves no useful purpose, right now, for us to praise the black church because, right now, it is a hindrance, not a help, to the struggle for justice.

Even preachers with as much potential as Jeremiah Wright end up focusing on trying to get a black man elected as head of the Beast when our needs would be better served if he worked on bringing down that Beast no happen who happened to be wearing its ten crowns.

We are to blame for this. Our churches and pastors reflect out own failures. We, collectively, are focused upon making money, paying bills, pursuing pleasure, and avoiding pain. And, the same shortsightedness is reflected in our black churches and pastors.

During the 60s, when the black church had its most shining moment, it was a case of a lot of black folks, not all, but definitely a quorum, deciding we had had just about enough of Jim Crow. Whenever we, as a people, can come together in such a way to struggle for justice [not revenge] the Divine One will ALWAYS raise up a King or Shuttlesworth or Mandela or Biko or Gandhi or someone else whose name no one even knows yet to lead the struggle. And, as in the 60s, He will raise up whites, browns, and Asians to fight with us.

But, first, we who were birthed in this time and in this place for an Express Purpose have to cleanse ourselves of the cancer which has spread so rapidly within the hearts and minds of the children of the woman clothed in the sun.

Peace, peace, peace.

[onelove917]

Originally Posted by dtownbro

Good morning...

And welcome to this forum...

Thank You !

Originally Posted by dtownbro

But while there were exceptions:

I continue to believe the earlier label does fit...

I. e., it was about the segregating of the white and nonwhite folk, whenever and whereever possible, lest the one (white) group realize some of them were as much in the 'have not' category as some of the nonwhites...

No offense but I must ask, what separation ?

The Klan would kill blacks if they heard they were learning to read even if this learning was on the black side of town. What separation ?

The black maid Strum Thurman produced a child with was in his home nursing his kids, cooking his meals, etc. What separation ?

The white woman Emmitt Till was murdered for looking at was helping run a store on the black side of town. What separation ?

Jim Crow was not separation; certainly not separate but equal. Jim Crow was a system of domination that utilized controlled contact. In that system, we were separate here but not there.

By calling that system segregation and determining to fight "segregation" every step of the way, many of us are led to feel that we are being badly hurt if we are not everywhere whites are. And, that is the kind of thinking we need to get away from.

All separation was not bad for the community.

And, don't get me wrong, I totally support having the legal right to integrate in the public arena. And, we need Affirmative Action in the work place. But, I don't need to be every where white people are. They can have their private clubs and schools and etc. Good riddance.

So, our leaders need to think about where integration helps us and where it does not instead of blindly chasing integration; no matter what.

Originally Posted by dtownbro

No telling what would've happened next if their ignorance etc. about that had been replaced with true knowledge as to how they were being exploited to at the time...

Etc.

Otherwise:

Good points!

Good post!

FYI...

Later...

Peace...

Again, Thank You !

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by dtownbro

You gotta be able to break it all down, so that the general reader comes away after having read the words and do get a sense of the meaning behind them, hence weigh the pros and cons of your feelings/thoughts/opinions, etc.

The general reader, most people, have no idea who they are, why they are here in this time and place, or who put them here. There is a more or less orderly process, put in place before this world was spoken into existence, which nudges even them to the Original Truth. But, their salvation will not be in this lifetime.

My desire in this age is to whet the curiosity of the few whose mix of Gunas have prepared them to become Free From The Known. It is possible for a man to become so convinced of what he knows that he ceases to hunger and thirst for righteousness. I wish to whet the curiosity of those whose ears are ready to hear.

"When the ears of the student are ready to hear, then cometh the lips to fill them with Wisdom." --- The Kybalion

[dtownbro]

Originally Posted by Istlota

The general reader, most people, have no idea who they are, why they are here in this time and place, or who put them here. There is a more or less orderly process, put in place before this world was spoken into existence, which nudges even them to the Original Truth. But, their salvation will not be in this lifetime.

My desire in this age is to whet the curiosity of the few whose mix of Gunas have prepared them to become Free From The Known. It is possible for a man to become so convinced of what he knows that he ceases to hunger and thirst for righteousness. I wish to whet the curiosity of those whose ears are ready to hear.

"When the ears of the student are ready to hear, then cometh the lips to fill them with Wisdom." --- The Kybalion

First of all?

Yes...

There is indeed something flawed about this website...

But let's move on anyway...

And my reaction to what you've said/written/etc. is some things we all need and should want to do for ourselves sans overdependence on individual sources etc. which imply and suggest somebody else had advanced our peoples best interests all alone and none of me and mine--you or yours...

Bullshit!

Our opinions and viewpoints reek of it when we go along with that rather than reject it as a given...

I do...

How about you?

FYI...

Take care...

Later...