Who would you Vote for in '08 Election?

Originally Posted by DBlack

I feel the same way as you. Virtually none of them seem genuine. There is a small part of me hoping that Obama will step up and show me something real. But he cowardice, calculating and evasive like all the rest and I hate to have to admit that to anyone.

"Cowardice, calculating and evasive like all the rest..." Welcome to the world of politics DBLack...It pained me to read such adjectives being thrown out there like that about our brother Obama, but of course, your allowed your viewpoint...however, considering how the political game has to be played, ESPECIALLY when running for the highest office, I think one should take into account just how much latitude a candidate who wants to have a serious chance of winning the nomination can have to be "gallant, reckless and forthright."

I will say that Obama is the ONLY candidate who did not vote for the war, hardly a "cowardly" stand to take at the time, but popular now.

The way I see it DBLACK, we, as african americans have three choices when it comes to politics:

1) "not participate" because we feel there is nothing to be gained in this "imperialist white-supremacist capitalist patriarchial" nation (to use bel hooks phrase) no matter who is in office, in which case, we are saying that the dreams of M.L.K.Jr. and others can't be realized and we should do as Brother Randal Robinson did, and "Quit America."

Option 2): "Particpate" not because we love this racist country and feel like we are 100% vested, but because we ain't leaving and realize that change can't come, and damn sure won't be given to us by white america if we don't take action ourselves. In this case, we vote for the candidate who will do the most for our people, no matter their political party. In many instances, this is a "Green Party" candidate, but we are so entrenched with the Democratic machine, that we can't see the forest for the trees (sorry for the bad pun)

Option 3: "Participate with nose held" This option means we have to face reality and realize that most times, the leading candidates may have little or no policies which will help us black people, but we vote for one or the other because something is better than nothing, i.e. "at least she'll protect affirmative action and affordable housing..." or we vote for him because the other candidate will do serious damage to us as a people

DBlack, I ask that you look at Obama, and the other candidates past on issues that concern you (and us) and see where they stood, not take only the rhetoric you here during the campaign season. Obama has stood up for our people, attends (still) a black church (not only during the campaign season), is married to a beautiful strong black sister, and has not run away from his blackness...these facts, along with the thought that I never thought I'd be able to live to see a black President (who wasn't a Clearance Thomas type) is enough for this brother to support him over the usual cast of charachters...my only fear is that he's not "cowardly, calculating, and evasive" enough to WIN the nomination....

Thanks for putting this topic out there Brother D...

[Istlota]

There is a 4th option Marquiss did not mention -- "Instead of voting for someone who does not have your best interest at heart, channel that energy into grassroots organizations not affiliated with any political parties."

There is no way, I repeat, NO WAY, Obama is going to fight the global system of white supremacy and replace it with justice. He is too invested in it to do it any real damage. In America, to get elected President, you have to raise multi-mega-millions. That kind of money, and Obama has already collected lots of it, carries with it all sorts of strings. Obama already owes lots and lots of favors to lots and lots of White Folks whose money he took.

Black Folks, most of us, never heard of Obama before he was elected into the Senate. But,we have now had some time to gauge how down he is by his tenure in the Senate.

So, Black Folks, ask yourself a relevant question -- can I think of one thing he has done aimed specifically at improving the lives of Black Folks?

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by sephari

i must admit though, he does sound alright, but he's still a republican...

This guy is perplexing. I am still trying to get a read on him myself.

I mean, he is a republican ---- a republican from Texas. My gut tells me that can't be good.

But, he voted against both the Patriot Act and the Iraq war. That is is a VERY good thing. Even more impressive, he has taken a non-ambivalent stand against going to war with Iran. That is a VERY, VERY good thing.

Check out a speech he made in the house of representatives a year ago. This speech could have easily come out of the mouth of Noam Chomski, or Scott Ritter (who, interestingly enough, is also a republican against W.'s war without end). As a matter of fact, it is pretty much what I would I say before the destroyers up in DC - minus any mention of White supremacy:

Iran: The Next Neocon Target

Note that we have never, nor will we ever, hear Obama take such a strong, void of ambivalence, stand against going to war with Iran. As a matter of fact, while he has since gotten smart enough not to talk like that in public anymore, there is a public record from three years ago of Obama rubber stamping an aerial assault against Iran:

Obama would consider missile strikes on Iran -- OrlandoSentinel.com

I cannot say it too many times. Be careful of that brother. He is not what he appears to be.

Getting back to Ron Paul, on the negative side, there is that disturbing picture on his web site of him shaking hands with Reagan, the one that says he was Reagan's (aka, Mickey Mouse) earliest supporter.

Ron Paul 2008 — Hope for America

So, I dunno about Ron Paul. I am still watching him very, very closely.

[pwkadad2100]

Originally Posted by Istlota

There is a 4th option Marquiss did not mention -- "Instead of voting for someone who does not have your best interest at heart, channel that energy into grassroots organizations not affiliated with any political parties."

There is no way, I repeat, NO WAY, Obama is going to fight the global system of white supremacy and replace it with justice. He is too invested in it to do it any real damage. In America, to get elected President, you have to raise multi-mega-millions. That kind of money, and Obama has already collected lots of it, carries with it all sorts of strings. Obama already owes lots and lots of favors to lots and lots of White Folks whose money he took.

Black Folks, most of us, never heard of Obama before he was elected into the Senate. But,we have now had some time to gauge how down he is by his tenure in the Senate.

So, Black Folks, ask yourself a relevant question -- can I think of one thing he has done aimed specifically at improving the lives of Black Folks?

I say give the brother a chance , besides what makes you think a white candidate who already enjoys the fruits of white supremacy will not continue those type of policies..At least Obama will give a black perspective to some of the decisions made in government , like Supreme court appointees etc...Also the one outcome of Obama being elected that we're all ignoring is the impact it will have on the minds of young Black people...It could give them so much motivation that our communities will be better places to live...But without a solid "united" effort to get him elected , Obama won't win ...So let's give him and in some way "us" a chance to really make some positive changes in this country no matter how small those changes may be...And to answer your question...Obabma voted against the war and he's not an uncle tom like , Ken Blackwell , Joseph C. Phillips , Ward Connelly , etc...he does give us some feeling of pride as a blackman and I think he'll be a good president...Give him a chance...

[Baba Ahmed]

Which war did he vote against? Surely not the invasion of Iraq, i.e., a second phase of the war already started by his daddy.

Surely he did not vote against giving his president a free spending hand with what was it, $80 BILLION?

And b4 that why was he so tight with Mayor Daley?

Give'im a chance, huh? Why? To do what? For WHO!?! When? On "Judgment Day?"

Where is the politician who will speak clearly for Black people? Oh, damn! I forgot that Mayor Washington of Chicago passed on due to mysterious causes. Yeah right. At the very least is it not time, again, to call for a BLACK POLITICAL PARTY!?!

[Meroe]

I honestly believe all the presidential candidates with the exception of Dennis Kucinich are too entrenched with the political status quo of this country. I have little to no faith in the electoral process. I would vote for Obama simply because he's a Black man running for the highest office in the land. But do I believe Obama would fulfill some sort of meaningful change in regard to the most pertinent issues effecting this country and particularly African Americans? No. Obama is still a trained politician who must walk a fine line between real domestic change or the end of his political career.

My presidential candidates aren't running for office - which in a sense is a good thing. I would not want to see them get dragged through the mud by white people and the defilement that operates in DC. Local, grassroots advocacy often works best. And these two below have a stellar track record of social advocacy.



Cynthia McKinney


Elaine Brown

Originally Posted by Baba Ahmed

Which war did he vote against? Surely not the invasion of Iraq, i.e., a second phase of the war already started by his daddy.

Surely he did not vote against giving his president a free spending hand with what was it, $80 BILLION?

And b4 that why was he so tight with Mayor Daley?

Give'im a chance, huh? Why? To do what? For WHO!?! When? On "Judgment Day?"

Where is the politician who will speak clearly for Black people? Oh, damn! I forgot that Mayor Washington of Chicago passed on due to mysterious causes. Yeah right. At the very least is it not time, again, to call for a BLACK POLITICAL PARTY!?!

Brother Ahmed, what are you talking about? I can provide evidence that Barack voted against funding for the war in 2004 (can you provide evidence otherwise?), his FIRST chance as a Senator to vote on the Iraq issue, so yes, you are partially correct in your statement since he did not have the ability in 2002 to vote against the actual invasion of Iraq, BUT if you read a popular speech have gave in 2002, his views against the war for it's inception are clear.

And I think your mistaking Barack for Bush II when you say, "Surely he did not vote against giving his president a free spending hand with what was it, $80 BILLION?" Barack actually DID vote AGAINST giving the President a free-spending hand without timelines for withdrawal, so please, if your going to criticize the brother, which I have no problem with you doing, get the facts straight.

Pakawdad has it right: the chance to put a black man in the highest seat in the land, who isn't an Uncle Tom, and who could at least speak to our issues as one of us, instead of an outsider pandering for votes during election time (white people) should be enough for us to support the brother. Yes, a black political party would be great (isn't that sort of what the Nation of Islam represent?), but let's be real, that would only work on the local level, not national.

My question to those of you who say that your not going to vote for Barack because he's "just like the rest," a potential "sell-out" "not black enough" I wonder who do you think is a better alternative that has a chance of winning, or if not winning, making an impact big enough so that our issues will be acknowledged on a national level?

Lastly, let's look at the record: Obama got a perfect 100 rating from the NAACP, National Organization for Women, National Education Association, the Children’s Defense Fund, the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees and the Illinois Environmental Council (during his stint in the Illinois legislature), and the ACLU gives him high points.

These organizations address OUR issues so for them to rank Barack so highly tells me the brother must be doing something right...

[Baba Ahmed]

Its very possible Im mistaken. Im thinking maybe of the vote to declare or go to war, when two women representatives were only ones to vote against Bush.

In addition to providing the proof, hasn't there been two voting times for funds to continue the war/occupation of Iraq?

Im not a close monitor of Federal politics. But u say give'im a chance? A chance to do what?

Forgive my short answers its late or early depending on viewpoint, I'm go n to sleep. But will ck this thread later on today. U deserved some kinda response.

Still I won't vote for him, come presidential selection time. Its not simply Obama, who I didn't know existed til quite recently; but also Bush & co. imo have effected two coups. Electronic voting? BS. So called propriatary rights are said to block even Federal gov't from auditing voting results.

[MadameX]

Originally Posted by Baba Ahmed

Electronic voting? BS.

In a major way.

[Istlota]

Meroe,

I like your taste in politicians. If I end up voting for Prez in 2008, hopefully Elaine Brown will be somewhere on the ballot:

Babblemur & Akaoni Power Hour! » Elaine Brown to seek Green Party presidential nomination

http://www.seizethetime.com/ElaineBrown.mp3