Who would you Vote for in '08 Election?

[Paul Cuffee]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

Take race out of it for a moment. I know....it will be hard. :)

Am I suggesting that Blacks want to live like Whites? Really? Where? Where did I make that judgement? Please back this up.

If anything, I am suggesting that the poor would rather live like the rich.

And are YOU suggesting this is not the case? Because one of the primary arguments going on in here is that the distribution of wealth in this country is unfair. I'm on topic. I think you are straying.

Neither of us is in any position to describe what quality of life the rest of our society wants, so there is not fatal flaw in my assessment. I've only said that the means to whatever end you deem yourself capable of ( in fact, I believe I used the word 'sustain' ) is within your reach in our present society.

Do you disagree?

In America race can not be taken out of any discussion of this nature, not to mention you brought race into the topic. What you are decribing is not the lifestyle of the rich it is that of the middle class. Black middle class people have for a long time lived differently than middle class whites. Read, there are many books on the topic. Thus what you describe is white middle class life( racial percentage in your post)
I am in a position to describe the quality of life concious Black Americans want to a certain extent. I live among them, I am in 4 organizations with them, I volunteer with them, and soon I will join my other family members and do business among them- not to mention I AM THEM.

[Paul Cuffee]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

Actually, I did not bring race into this topic. I was talking strictly politics, platforms and ideaologies, until Istlota injected the concept of economic inequality. I thanked him for his imput, agreed to lookinto it for further discussion, and exchanged a few ideas on the subject, and was back to politics. And then YOU jumped in with race. It's all right down there. Look.

I even tried to stay the course with you by discussing rich vs poor. Something you've made it clear you cannot ( or will not ) do, evidenced by your assertion that "race cannot be taken out of discussions of this nature."

So you can disagree with me til the cows drop dead, but please, either back up your claims, or take the necessary time to make sure you aren't convincing yourself of something that isn't true. Especially when it concerns putting words and assertions into the mouths of others.

I'm choosing to ignore the rest. If you don't think I am part of the Black community, then nothing I say or do will convince you of how absurd your statement is.

Ad homians.I'm nuts. Please keep your insults to yourself. This is the last time I'm going to let you insult me without response.
Well lets make this really simple since I have to keep it basic for you.
America is not a free market society, it is not a democracy, your theories are wrong. If you need me to point out how this is not a free market society you have not watched the news lately and thus shouldn't be discussing such things. America has elements of a free market society, elements of socialism, elements of probaly nazism and communism. Thats is probaly why it works, it is reality not ideology.

[DBlack]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

I'm voting for McCain. At the risk of sounding pundit redundant, Barack's platform amounts to socialism, and I don't want socialism.

America is the greatest nation in the world, democracy is the fairest governing system ever devised, and capitalism has lead to the most prosperity, for the greatest number of people ever.

But too many of us have convinced ourselves that dissent is the defacto patriotism, and being pro-American is anti-American.

McCain isn't perfect, and Palin even less so, but Obama's got nothing but a socialist agenda of wealth redistribution the same as what Russia had in store for us not too far back.

Oh, and I know this forum is about being Afrocentric or whatnot, but this thread, in my opinioin, has nothing to do with race.

I think letting race ( or gender ) factor in to one's decision to vote for a president would be a disservice to one's own intellect.

Man you are some work of art. Obama is not about "wealth redistribution". And while you are abusing this buzz word taken straight from the bullet points of neo conservative propaganda, here are some other forms of "wealth redistribution" that McCain and conservatives support:

- tax breaks on the rich
- 700 million dollar bailouts to failing banks and insurance companies
- Deregulation of big business and financial markets.
- Mass importation and sanctuary of free or damn near free labor.

...please...

[Dirty]

Originally Posted by DBlack

Obama is not about "wealth redistribution".

You sure?

YouTube - Obama: Wealth Redistribution is Neighborly


YouTube - Obama the Socialist wants to spread YOUR money around

[Juice.]

If Obama was working towards resdistributing wealth away from the 2%, I might actually vote for him.

Unfortunetly, that's just neocon propaganda. Obama just fought to have a 700 billion dollar bailout given to the wealthiest and greediest among us. He's not a Socialist, he's not a Communist, he's playing the same game as every other president elect.

[Juice.]

Originally Posted by Dirty

You sure?

YouTube - Obama: Wealth Redistribution is Neighborly


YouTube - Obama the Socialist wants to spread YOUR money around

I just got around to watching those videos, and I have to say: Only a brainwashed moron would have a problem with what Obama is saying here.

Dirty, you don't belong on a pro-Black website. The top 1% of wage-earners might as well live in another galaxy. They don't live like you and I do. They don't work like you and I do. Can you say "hedge fund"? If you consider market and media manipulation, outrageous usury and outright thievery to be moral actions, then I guess the guys at the top are entitled to their money and deserve to live in those conditions while Blacks and Hispanics are struggling just to get by in the hood. Obama is correct, and I'm glad he spoke the truth here.

That "trickle-down effect" is someone pissing on our legs and calling it rain. The Federal Reserve and the Market Men are screwing us, every single day, making it so that our dollar is worth less and less all the time. And sheep like yourself complain about the people who are getting screwed instead of the people who are screwing them.

Originally Posted by Juice.

That "trickle-down effect" is someone pissing on our legs and calling it rain. .

I agree, or trying to sell us piss, claiming its liquid gold!! either way, the public and not just this bull ish so called "joe 6 pack", which I have never heard of this term until this palin came into the pic btw, seem to be opening up its eyes a bit more... are not so quick to go for the okey doke* let us worry about big business,, your in great hands* BS, any longer. with respect to whichever policies that go into play, there wont be any fix all, happen overnight, solutions....get ready for a long haul, yall!

[Dirty]

Originally Posted by Juice.

I just got around to watching those videos, and I have to say: Only a brainwashed moron would have a problem with what Obama is saying here.

C'mon now, let's be civil. No reason to call me a moron. Someone said Obama isn't interested in distributing the wealth, and I found two videos where he clearly says he is interested in redistributing the wealth. Calling me a moron, doesn't make me wrong.

Originally Posted by Juice.

Dirty, you don't belong on a pro-Black website.

I don't even know what to do with this. It's too far out there for me.

Originally Posted by Juice.

The top 1% of wage-earners might as well live in another galaxy. They don't live like you and I do. They don't work like you and I do. Can you say "hedge fund"? If you consider market and media manipulation, outrageous usury and outright thievery to be moral actions, then I guess the guys at the top are entitled to their money and deserve to live in those conditions while Blacks and Hispanics are struggling just to get by in the hood. Obama is correct, and I'm glad he spoke the truth here.

That "trickle-down effect" is someone pissing on our legs and calling it rain. The Federal Reserve and the Market Men are screwing us, every single day, making it so that our dollar is worth less and less all the time. And sheep like yourself complain about the people who are getting screwed instead of the people who are screwing them.

But Obama isn't focusing his tax hikes on the top 1%. Most of whom are already experts in avoiding most taxation to begin with. If he was concerned with the top 1%, he'd be hiking taxes bigtime on people making over a million or something close to that.

250K is not a lot of money. A married couple with two working adults can rip that pretty easily.

And as far as trickling down, I can tell you that the only thing that is going to tricke down to us from this tax hike is the cost of Joe the Plumber's services. He will pass this increase right back to you and me. Obama knows this.

I haven't come out in support of McCain, I merely pointed out that Obama is using the oldest trick in the book to lock in the poor vote.

You think you are gonna see a nickel of Joe the plumber's money than YOU are the one who's been brainwashed.

[Dirty]

I've noticed several times in this thread, or this site, that whenever someone has an opinioin that doesn't immediately lock step with Obama or the Democtratic party's platitudes, they are labled unsympathetic to the Black cause.

Why is this? It's almost as if achhieving financial success, or exhibiting any of the typical behaviors that would lead to it are somehow un-Black? It saddens me really to see sometimes the ire that is so automatically aimed at the wealthy.

Sure many of them are white...but not ALL of them. Many of them are evil, but not ALL of them. many of them have given in to corruption, but not ALL of them?

It's like we're admitting that if we were to actually reach that level of wealth we too would automatically become evil and corrupt. So why try?

I mean Juice...aren't those Gucci sunglasses in your pic?

[Juice.]

You're full of it. NO ONE on this board has complained about the right of honest, hard-working men and women to earn, keep and spend as much money as they can. But honest, hard-working men and women are not what we're talking about.

Are you talking about ethical or unethical ways of getting rich? When the Federal Reserve prints a few more billion dollars to bail out banks and mortgage companies and causes inflation of the dollar for everyone else, is this ethical or unethical? When the market men manipulate the markets, hedge away any risk, and use inside information to increase their profits at the expense of those who are playing fairly, is this ethical or unethical? When a business hires illegal aliens in order to increase profits at the expense of American citizens, is this ethical or unethical? How about when it decides to fire loyal employees a few months before they were due to retire and start receiving a pension? Ethical?

I don't think you'll find one person on this site who has a problem with anyone getting rich through honesty, integrity and hard work. But to suppose that the super-rich are somehow deserving of praise BECAUSE they're rich is ridiculous. It's no secret that billions and billions of dollars are made daily by thieving, lying, dishonest men and women, who make their fortunes crookedly, and at the expense of others. It's also no secret that the vast majority of these people are whites and Jews. "The rich work hard and save" doesn't hold up to careful scrutiny. The richest men in America have not acquired what they have through hard work or by saving money. They speculate. They leverage their investments with money that's not theirs.

Let's say you're a hedgefund manager that only has to meet a 2% margin on oil futures. Eventually you'll drive the price of gasoline up to $4 a gallon when supply and demand would dictate a price of only $2 per gallon. Where does the other $2 go? Straight out of your pocket and into the hedgefund manager's pocket. Did he ever create anything of value? No. Did he ever even physically own a drop of oil? No. It was just a transfer of money. It's winner take all casino-Capitalism. According to you, Black men should seek to become wealthy by buying oil futures and screwing the American public? Not me.

No one here is arguing (I think) for state-engineered "equality", which would be communism. But by the same token, we should also be against state-engineered inequality, which is what we have in the USA today.

What kind of society do we want? The US is regressing to something like India and Brazil, akin to a third-world country. India, which now has 75 billionaires - but where at least 1/3 of the country is illiterate. Brazil, where the rich live in a state of siege, and the masses of the poor live in huge slum cities. Conditions are getting worse and worse every year. There are parts of Baltimore that are worse than any favela in Rio De Janeiro. Detroit is in ruins. Los Angeles is a third-world city.

And the glasses - $15 from Wal-Mart.