Who would you Vote for in '08 Election?

[StJohn1726]

Originally Posted by SEATTLE

anyone who thinks the electoral collage is going to go away as our tool for picking a president is fooling themselves.

I believe that to be true. It's not in the political and financial elite's interest to allow the middle class, working poor and so-called "underclass" to make direct, informed decisions about who should represent us in the world's political arena. If it was in their interest, public school curricula would be designed to produce Constitutionally knowledgeable students. However, a populace with that kind of knowledge would be too difficult to manipulate...very dangerous to the existing power structure.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

I'm voting for McCain. At the risk of sounding pundit redundant, Barack's platform amounts to socialism, and I don't want socialism.

America is the greatest nation in the world, democracy is the fairest governing system ever devised, and capitalism has lead to the most prosperity, for the greatest number of people ever.

But too many of us have convinced ourselves that dissent is the defacto patriotism, and being pro-American is anti-American.

McCain isn't perfect, and Palin even less so, but Obama's got nothing but a socialist agenda of wealth redistribution the same as what Russia had in store for us not too far back.

Oh, and I know this forum is about being Afrocentric or whatnot, but this thread, in my opinioin, has nothing to do with race.

I think letting race ( or gender ) factor in to one's decision to vote for a president would be a disservice to one's own intellect.

Correction. America is not a democratic (state) it is a quasi nazi and a replublic (state). Plutocracy is more what this nation is about. The few owns the most and pimps the many who to often have nothing. Not....very democratic.

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

America is the greatest nation in the world, democracy is the fairest governing system ever devised, and capitalism has lead to the most prosperity, for the greatest number of people ever.

I see you have been drinking the koolaid. It is a well documented fact that America's prosperity is not distributed to "the greatest number of people". America's wealth is a microcosm of global wealth, which is tightly distributed _away_ from brown and black people for purely racist reasons. We live in a world where 2% [most of them white] of the entire world population [most of whom are not white] holds over half of the global wealth. There is nothing fair or equitable about this.

And, the reason for this inequity is not that Caucasians/Americans are wiser, fairer, or blessed by God. They/we are just the most greedy and aggressive culture within the gen pop. They/we are like the handful of the worst of the worst inmates in a prison who end up controlling the rest of the gen pop purely on the basis of having the least reservations against killing or torturing anyone who gets in the way of what they/we want.

Neither Obama or McCain will save us. They are both as brainwashed by the koolaid as you are. And Palin, poor child, that woman is so far out of her depth that she is starting to look, and sound, like the Goldie Hawn character in the old Laugh In TV show. Why would anyone, other than white racists, vote for McCain-Palin and risk Grandpa McCain having a stroke and America ending up with Private Benjamin as our Commander In Chief?



YouTube - Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In Clip #6 Goldie explains it all.

YouTube - Sarah Palin and DUMB

[Treazzure007]

im voting for obama b/c he's representing the democratic party. i would vote for anything opposite of where we stand now. i will vote b/c people shed blood, sweat, and tears for me to have the opportunity.
God willing, mccain won't win. i don't see a future with him in office. he wants to continue bs wars and even start new ones. we keep up this sh*t and someone will bomb us for sure!

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

Can you vote? Does your vote get counted? If the majority of the people vote the same way you do, does that candidate/bill/law/proposition go into effect?

If the candidate that you chose turns out to do a horrible job, can you lobby for his impeachment and choose a new one?

Are you free to exercise your right NOT to vote? And are you ever pressured whatsoever by ANYONE to vote a certain way?


uh-huh.....


Sounds like around here we have a few downtrodden folks who think life is fair, and that the Government should step in and redistribute the nations wealth evenly.

I came to this site looking for some strong, proactive opinions on how to raise our people up. Upon a cursory review, so far all I've seen is some whining about the MAN is keeping everyone down. All that tells me is that you haven't taken advantage of all the gifts our parents and grandparents fought for.

Seem like you are confusing a few freedoms with what we are trying to surmise concerning what this nation is really about.

So what you can freakin vote; Voting is not peculiar only to America. What does what were talking about here got to do with what your moms told you when you were 5 years old?

You came here to mock us and make it seem like your way of thinking is God. You are not the only one here in a good financial situation, a solid family base, working, going to school, holding jobs, owning businessess, etc..

...Like you say you are...

Half of the people on this board are very successfull. They just don't walk around courting to the matrix like you do. So "taking advantage" of the "gifts" our ancestors bestowed upon us is not even the issue here, now is it?

We are not whining about anything, we are just aware.

[The Dragon]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

I was told we do not live in a Democracy. And I proved beyond any doubt that we do. Live with it.

I didn't come here to mock anyone. I'm just posting my opinions on the subjects I don't agree with. I think you find yourself defensive around me because I'm probably picking at some of your own scabs. Own that, and let's go forward.

I've said NOTHING about anyone's financial status other than my own, and I never said I was well to do. I'm not. I'm solidly middle class.

The life is not fair comment was directed to the person who said the nations wealth should be distributed more evenly because it's not fair that so few have so much. I disagree with that and believe that life is not fair "in that sense"

If you think about it, most of the wealthy worked very hard for what they have. And that is kind of fair.

I'm not an idiot Dragon. I'm of average to above average intellect.

I could chase you around the site poking holes in your logic and ripping your grammar to pieces all day long. But I'm trying to remain cool through your badgering. You want to talk, let's talk. You want to continue insult me, and I'll tell you right now, I wrote the book on internet jihad.

I almost don't know what to say. Jesus Christ!! For one, never toot your own horn; Let someone else judge whether or not you are between average and above average intellect.

Go ahead and open your book on internet jihad: So the administrators can ban you. Troll.

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

No Koolaid. Just stating the truth. The fact that the vast amount of wealth is owned and controlled by a few does not in any way detract from the fact that there is not another nation in the world that affords its citizenry the level of opportunity that America does.

You are revealing your ignorance of the _science_ of economic inequality. Rather than continue to reveal your naivete on the subject, take a break and do some research on something called the Gini Coefficient.

Here is your error in a nutshell. You have chosen the self-serving [and thoroughly republican] approach of defining "opportunity" in terms of wealth relative to the rest of the world. But, that is like comparing apples to oranges. It is misleading to compare the "'opportunity" of someone in a rich nation like America to someone living in a mud shack in Haiti. There are just too many relevant variables.

What _is_ relevant is to compare the "opportunity" of rich white Americans to that of poor black Americans. And, when you do, it becomes crystal clear that economic inequity in America is _worst_ than most european nations.

It is true that we black people are, indeed, so often our own worst enemy. But, you need to take the time to educate yourself as to how the economic inequity between blacks and whites _within_ all nations is a well-thought out, and carefully orchestrated, assault that europeans have been waging against non-europeans for a couple of millenia. The Tulsa Race Riot was just one of many historic events which reveal this.

They say good living is the best revenge, so that's what I'm doing. Taking advantage of the many gifts that this nations offers, and not chaining myself down with the few inequities. My mom told me when I was 5 years old that life isn't fair. Seems some take a lot longer to let that one sink in.

Accountability. It's sorely lacking in our community.

But, you have chosen to fight the Smiths by becoming one of them. I do not see the wisdom in that.

[sephari]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

Can you vote?
in most cases yes, in many no.
Does your vote get counted?
in many cases no, hanging chad anyone?
If the majority of the people vote the same way you do, does that candidate/bill/law/proposition go into effect?
again not always. i actually remember voting for a particular state law that passed overwhelmingly yet almost immediately, the state legislature struck it down because they didn't like it

If the candidate that you chose turns out to do a horrible job, can you lobby for his impeachment and choose a new one?
i've been waiting (for, what has it been 5 years now?) for the impeachment of a certain group of individuals with little success

Are you free to exercise your right NOT to vote?
obviously
And are you ever pressured whatsoever by ANYONE to vote a certain way? personally i wouldn't call it that...


uh-huh.....


Sounds like around here we have a few downtrodden folks who think life is fair, and that the Government should step in and redistribute the nations wealth evenly.
where in sam hill did you get that assesment?

Originally Posted by 1DDH

I was told we do not live in a Democracy. And I proved beyond any doubt that we do.....

actually, by definition the united states is a republic not a democracy:

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition - Cite This Source - Share This
republic

A form of government in which power is explicitly vested in the people, who in turn exercise their power through elected representatives. Today, the terms republic and democracy are virtually interchangeable, but historically the two differed. Democracy implied direct rule by the people, all of whom were equal, whereas republic implied a system of government in which the will of the people was mediated by representatives, who might be wiser and better educated than the average person. In the early American republic, for example, the requirement that voters own property and the establishment of institutions such as the Electoral College were intended to cushion the government from the direct expression of the popular will.

Originally Posted by 1DDH

I compare our way of life to teh rest of the world, because honestly...isn't that what we're talking about? We're complaining about a place that people from the rest of the world are emmigrating to in record numbers, swimming to, walking across deserts to, crawling through tunnels to...etc.

Because there IS wisdom in what I'm doing. Lots of conventional wisdom. I subscribe to the philosphy that if you can't join em, beat em. By their own rules if necessary. And in many ways I have, and continue to do so.

this is on point...more, and more we have to have the independent thinking of.. so what,, they wont allow us into their" country club", hell, we'll make own own club, and show that, who better to rise in these times than us!! to continue to compete and surpass those in the field of ideas....what I see hear is great minds, strong minds, who are of the same coin, so to speak.. we may look different from heads to tails, but are the same, and you cant have one without the other,,I believe td jakes said something to this effect...

[Paul Cuffee]

Originally Posted by 1DDH

Interesting, and I WILL read into this further. But I stand behind my basic assessment. While not perfect, and nowhere near it, Democracy, Capitalism, and Free Markets have been proven time and again to offer the greatest amount of opportunity for the largest number of people than any ofher popular governing system.

I compare our way of life to teh rest of the world, because honestly...isn't that what we're talking about? We're complaining about a place that people from the rest of the world are emmigrating to in record numbers, swimming to, walking across deserts to, crawling through tunnels to...etc.

To me, opportunity and financial wealth are not one in the same. To me, opportunity simply means that you are afforded the tools, environment and freedom to carve out a life throughought which, you can sustain yourself. Can we agree that America, for all its faults, does a pretty good job of this?

I think economic inequality is close to being another discussion altogether, but I'll have to go back and re-read some posts first. I appreciate your input.

But I also think the your assessment of me, with regard to my relationship to the Smiths is unfair. Because there IS wisdom in what I'm doing. Lots of conventional wisdom. I subscribe to the philosphy that if you can't join em, beat em. By their own rules if necessary. And in many ways I have, and continue to do so.

Your fatal flaw is assuming Blacks desire to live exactly like whites or should. Every culture values material well being differently. Not to mention there has never been a society that practiced free markets. You have too amny flaws in your theory.