Who would you Vote for in '08 Election?

[DBlack]

Originally Posted by Northeast APSP

Clinton put more police on the streets to lock up Africans. He increased the amount of crimes that you can get the death penalty for to kill more Africans. Did a few more things for African people too as I recall. What a nice white man?!?!?!

I don't remember any bill that Clinton passed with the words "lock up and criminalize as many blacks as you can". The criminal system is unfair because of the judicial and executive branches of government. Presidents cannot legislate racism. He signed bills into law. These same bills increased the incarceration of whites as well.

Read your history; it's corrupt law enforcement and judicial interprestations that result in miscarriages of justice.

Just curious if you had to choose between:

Choice 1: Toucher laws, but more jobs/opportunity for blacks.

Choice 2: weaker laws, but less opportunity/jobs for blacks.

I'm willing to be that most of us would take Choice 1. It's choice one that minimized the change of us going to jail in the first place, because we are too busy providing for those that we love, running business and achieving higher education and success.

Tough laws are one thing. But when law enforcement unfairly prosecutes, and judges misinterpret the laws, that is not the fault of any president.

...And as sad as black incarceration rates are, this trend has been an issue before Clinton and after Clinton. But you can't deny that MILLIONS of blacks had opportunity unlike any other presidential term. That outweighs your conspiracy theory on the thousands of blacks that were victims of injustice. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter of course.

[afrocentric]

Tough laws are one thing. But when law enforcement unfairly prosecutes, and judges misinterpret the laws, that is not the fault of any president

.

i see what you mean dblack, but shouldn't the president re-evalurate (sp?)the law officers and their departments a little more closely? we are losing way to many of our people due to their wrath,...i mean, shooting them down like dogs is not what we had in mind in protecting the citizens. but then again some of us's can't sit their ahzzes still or get it right without trying to kill and steal another man's property. oh, but i forgot this kind of situations falls on deaf ears.

[Northeast APSP]

Originally Posted by DBlack

I don't remember any bill that Clinton passed with the words "lock up and criminalize as many blacks as you can". The criminal system is unfair because of the judicial and executive branches of government. Presidents cannot legislate racism. He signed bills into law. These same bills increased the incarceration of whites as well.

Read your history; it's corrupt law enforcement and judicial interprestations that result in miscarriages of justice.

Just curious if you had to choose between:

Choice 1: Toucher laws, but more jobs/opportunity for blacks.

Choice 2: weaker laws, but less opportunity/jobs for blacks.

I'm willing to be that most of us would take Choice 1. It's choice one that minimized the change of us going to jail in the first place, because we are too busy providing for those that we love, running business and achieving higher education and success.

Tough laws are one thing. But when law enforcement unfairly prosecutes, and judges misinterpret the laws, that is not the fault of any president.

...And as sad as black incarceration rates are, this trend has been an issue before Clinton and after Clinton. But you can't deny that MILLIONS of blacks had opportunity unlike any other presidential term. That outweighs your conspiracy theory on the thousands of blacks that were victims of injustice. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter of course.

First, why can't Presidents legislate racism or anything else. Oh, you must of forgot Slavery was Legal at one time?!?!?

Second, your Wrong because their is crime and drugs in white communities but they don't get locked up, they don't get killed by the Police! They don't get the Death Penalty! Not to the same degree. Statistics show that White people do drugs at the same rate Africans do but we the ones who end up in a cell.

Third, check your history it wasn't a miscarriage of justice that brought Africans to America and enslaved them, it wasn't a miscarriage of justice that put Africans in Prisons through a Jim Crow system, or into the Ghetto, or ran tests using stds on them Africans in Tuskegee, or that put Crack in the Hood, or made the FBI come up with COINTELPRO in the 60's, or that Killed FRED HAMPTON, or the rest of our leaders, or did any other horrible thing to African people.

So I find it hard to believe that it would be a miscarriage of justice when something terrible happens to African people now! And its a terrible excuse that you make for Clinton or anybody else representing this system that has never done anything for African People to say these problems have been around so Clinton is not responsible! That just legitimizes everything that wrong that has ever been done to us! We talk about how much Power America has and how much Power the President has then we make excuses for them when they don't use all that Power to help Us!

Fourth, I wouldn't choose neither, thats what is wrong when you keep trying to choose the lesser of two evils! You end up talking like that or discussing who you should vote for.
I don't want neither of those rotten candidates on the Ballot!
And I don't want neither of those choices!

I want POWER! I want to be self-determining! I want my People to Be FREE! I don't want anything else! And anything that talks about something less than being Free needs to be thrown out! Tossed aside!

No Compromise! No Surrender!

Black Power! this time till its Won!

Uhuru!

[Northeast APSP]

Originally Posted by afrocentric

hey i remember that. still to this day, i don't even know why that happen... please enlighten me.

It was a way for good ol' Clinton to say that the Democratic Party is not a Party of Negroes but a Party that will support the same interests it has been supporting. White Power Imperialism!
Didn't hear much from Jesse Jackson after that neither did we?

[DBlack]

Originally Posted by afrocentric

.

i see what you mean dblack, but shouldn't the president re-evalurate (sp?)the law officers and their departments a little more closely? we are losing way to many of our people due to their wrath,...i mean, shooting them down like dogs is not what we had in mind in protecting the citizens. but then again some of us's can't sit their ahzzes still or get it right without trying to kill and steal another man's property. oh, but i forgot this kind of situations falls on deaf ears.

There are laws in place that are supposed to govern the judicial and executive branches. Laws such as Due Process, Bill of Rights, Miranda Rights, Right to search and seizure, etc... exist today. What happens is that lawyers, prosecutors, police officers and agents abuse these powers.

Let's dig deeper. Clinton signed the 3 strikes law, which simply states that 3 time felony offenders get life in prison. That's 3 felonies, not misdemeanors. These people weren't stealing bubble gum. It doesn't mention who must commit the crime, where the crime is to be commited, or for what reason. Clinton, nor any other president conduct arrests, trials or prosecution, so you can't blame them. Now if the law was 3 strikes law for urban violence, I could see someone making the connection a little. But whites, latinos and blacks got locked up under the 3strikes law. It's the enforcement and judicial system that was corrupt, resulting in many blacks being wrongfully or overzealously prosecuted.

And now a moment of realness; If you are creating 3 felonies, you are a career criminal.

[Northeast APSP]

Originally Posted by DBlack

There are laws in place that are supposed to govern the judicial and executive branches. Laws such as Due Process, Bill of Rights, Miranda Rights, Right to search and seizure, etc... exist today. What happens is that lawyers, prosecutors, police officers and agents abuse these powers.

Let's dig deeper. Clinton signed the 3 strikes law, which simply states that 3 time felony offenders get life in prison. That's 3 felonies, not misdemeanors. These people weren't stealing bubble gum. It doesn't mention who must commit the crime, where the crime is to be commited, or for what reason. Clinton, nor any other president conduct arrests, trials or prosecution, so you can't blame them. Now if the law was 3 strikes law for urban violence, I could see someone making the connection a little. But whites, latinos and blacks got locked up under the 3strikes law. It's the enforcement and judicial system that was corrupt, resulting in many blacks being wrongfully or overzealously prosecuted.

And now a moment of realness; If you are creating 3 felonies, you are a career criminal.

Let's look at this, The Federal mandatory sentence for selling crack was a 100 times harsher than the sentence for selling cocaine even tho they the same the thing basically. The real difference is who sells what. Africans crack in the majority and white people sold cocaine in the majority. You don't have to say this law is for Black people for it to be aimed at black people.
When did we stop connecting the dots?

[DBlack]

Originally Posted by Northeast APSP

First, why can't Presidents legislate racism or anything else. Oh, you must of forgot Slavery was Legal at one time?!?!?

Second, your Wrong because their is crime and drugs in white communities but they don't get locked up, they don't get killed by the Police! They don't get the Death Penalty! Not to the same degree. Statistics show that White people do drugs at the same rate Africans do but we the ones who end up in a cell.

Third, check your history it wasn't a miscarriage of justice that brought Africans to America and enslaved them, it wasn't a miscarriage of justice that put Africans in Prisons through a Jim Crow system, or into the Ghetto, or ran tests using stds on them Africans in Tuskegee, or that put Crack in the Hood, or made the FBI come up with COINTELPRO in the 60's, or that Killed FRED HAMPTON, or the rest of our leaders, or did any other horrible thing to African people.

So I find it hard to believe that it would be a miscarriage of justice when something terrible happens to African people now! And its a terrible excuse that you make for Clinton or anybody else representing this system that has never done anything for African People to say these problems have been around so Clinton is not responsible! That just legitimizes everything that wrong that has ever been done to us! We talk about how much Power America has and how much Power the President has then we make excuses for them when they don't use all that Power to help Us!

Fourth, I wouldn't choose neither, thats what is wrong when you keep trying to choose the lesser of two evils! You end up talking like that or discussing who you should vote for.
I don't want neither of those rotten candidates on the Ballot!
And I don't want neither of those choices!

I want POWER! I want to be self-determining! I want my People to Be FREE! I don't want anything else! And anything that talks about something less than being Free needs to be thrown out! Tossed aside!

No Compromise! No Surrender!

Black Power! this time till its Won!

Uhuru!

My comments are not a minefield, you don’t have to chose to respond to one and ignore another to suit your argument. Yes, in early American History, Racism and Slavery was legislated. But we are talking about current events. Such racism could not get legislated today. You are really reaching if you think the 3 strikes laws is racism and/or slavery. Again, we all know about Jim Crow, the Tuskegee injustices and the abuses of law enforcement. But Jim Crow laws have all but been abolished now. They don’t exist at the federal level.

You are taking my words way out of context text. Every president of this country has, to varying degrees, supported the system that has oppressed minorities. But that’s not the subject of this thread. You want to discuss racism and the presidential impact on it, please start a thread on it. This subject is about who we would vote for in 08. And the narrow point I was trying to make is that under Clinton ,blacks had more jobs. Period. That don’t make him a great person, or great leader, savior or superman. But, considering that we have a long history of suffering and denial of opportunities in this country, having jobs is worth mentioning. Just look around you at what is happening today. Having jobs Is very important to point out, because most presidents never give thought to the needs of the black community. Obama has already shown that he will be one of these presidents that don’t care.

Now, back on subject. I will agree with you in that I consider all of them horrible choices. And I encourage everyone here able to vote to do some honest thinking and research before you decide on who to support and who not to. Too many of black folk have died for you to have that right. Use it wisely.

[Northeast APSP]

Originally Posted by DBlack

My comments are not a minefield, you don’t have to chose to respond to one and ignore another to suit your argument. Yes, in early American History, Racism and Slavery was legislated. But we are talking about current events. Such racism could not get legislated today. You are really reaching if you think the 3 strikes laws is racism and/or slavery. Again, we all know about Jim Crow, the Tuskegee injustices and the abuses of law enforcement. But Jim Crow laws have all but been abolished now. They don’t exist at the federal level.

You are taking my words way out of context text. Every president of this country has, to varying degrees, supported the system that has oppressed minorities. But that’s not the subject of this thread. You want to discuss racism and the presidential impact on it, please start a thread on it. This subject is about who we would vote for in 08. And the narrow point I was trying to make is that under Clinton ,blacks had more jobs. Period. That don’t make him a great person, or great leader, savior or superman. But, considering that we have a long history of suffering and denial of opportunities in this country, having jobs is worth mentioning. Just look around you at what is happening today. Having jobs Is very important to point out, because most presidents never give thought to the needs of the black community. Obama has already shown that he will be one of these presidents that don’t care.

Now, back on subject. I will agree with you in that I consider all of them horrible choices. And I encourage everyone here able to vote to do some honest thinking and research before you decide on who to support and who not to. Too many of black folk have died for you to have that right. Use it wisely.

lol, I didn't know there was a point I missed. I though I got everything.

But once again you look at these things like they where abuses in Power, yet they weren't they where Policy! Policy put in place by elected officials.
To start saying that they where abuses makes it sound like these policies where some how their to benefit you in the first place?
This system wasn't meant to benefit you and neither is any representative supposed to represent you. This country wasn't built like that.

I never took your word out of context neither. To say that would mean is the issues I brought up did not relate to what you where saying. You can't act like what is happening today is unrelated to what was happening yesterday, 20 years, 40 years, a century, or 4 centuries ago. It is all interconnected. Especially when you are talking about a system that was built off your oppression and enslavement.

As for the jobs if you have not noticed the system has always taken away with one hand that it gave with the other. That is why when they let us out of slavery they put us in Prison or in the Ghetto, that is why when when we where given opportunities in the FBI it started out only to infiltrate and destroy the Marcus Garvey Movement.

And as for me going off topic I never did. Because I encourage people not to vote and if you are going to vote write in a veteran Black Panther or Omali Yeshitela. Plus regardless if we are talking about voting we must understand why we are voting and who we support which I have never stopped talking about the issues that relate to each and every canidate.
If I am wrong please tell me.

[DBlack]

Bring this conversation to the present and get back on topic and we can resume the discussion. No once dispute what youare saying here, but it's totally unrelated to the topic. You are off on another planet here....

But you are making my point about corrupt law enforcement. The FBI, is an enforcement tool that was corrupted. Corruption in our system today lies more in the enforcement and judicial agencies as it relates to criminal justice. Trying to blame Clinton for have a 3 time felony crackdown law is a stretch by anyone's standards.

You are being hypocritical, and here's why:

Obama is pro capital punishment. Even in crimes where murder has not occured. Capital Punishment has been used to murder more blacks than whites. The criminal justice system has consistently disproportionately used this punishment against blacks. I don't see you or other Obama koolaid drinkers calling Obama a murderer or accusing him of harming blacks? Gee, why not? The fact is, it's not the President's fault for creating laws that are universally applicable in most cases. The criminal justice system is the problem because it inconsistently applies laws and is corrupt....and until that is cleaned up, blacks will continue to be subject to injustices by the criminal system.

Back on topic please....?

[darkwing69]

this post has been here a minute and the playing field has now changed and so has some of the views and issues of the canidates. Let's repost this one with the new updates to the canidates