Is He Still A Man If He Slaps A Woman? I missed the memo

Originally Posted by mandingo

A man should never hit or slap a woman. If you justify that it's okay under certain circumstances then you have to say it's okay for them all. You can't keep moving the line when you see fit. "You can slap me when I do this, this or this. But not that". It doesn't work like that. A man hitting a woman for any reason is just wrong. A real man walks away or restrains her.

Nah it ain't that simple. Everybody has a line, I don't care who it is. Cross it and you get dealt with, whatever that happens to be. I know a man who slapped his wife for buying him a damn birthday cake. I know a few who beat their's just for the hell of it. I'm not for men beating on their women, or any woman, just cuz they feel like it. But I won't condemn a man for reacting like a human in a small number of situations. Sorry I just won't do that. Like I said, let me come home and she got another man up in my bed. We will make the news cuz there are just somethings as a woman you don't do when you respect your man and if you don't respect him why should he respect you? IMO a vagina does not equal respect. A person's actions does.

[MrAtlanta]

To me, walking away is the best policy. If a woman is saying terrible things or becomes threatening, just walk away and the crisis can be averted.

Originally Posted by MrAtlanta

To me, walking away is the best policy. If a woman is saying terrible things or becomes threatening, just walk away and the crisis can be averted.

Agreed. In most cases if it's that serious I'd just pick up the phone and let the females in my family handle it. I just say a few scenarios should get judgemental amnesty. But a lot of trouble between grown folks could be prevented if people are taught that adults have the ability to solve their problems without resorting to violence. However, at the same time trouble can be avoided too if people are taught that sometimes the consequences to your actions can get your butt whooped.

[goodcookinmama]

no no no a real man whould never put his hands on a woman only punks do that i dont care how mad he was he should have just walked away she did not hit him or put his life in danger so there was no need he is just another punk *** mother fuckka

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Serenity4Ever

Actually the analysis only presents ONE opinion. The SUBTEXT (underlying implication) of my post presents the argument that a man should NOT hit a woman UNLESS SHE does something to him or creates a situation that triggers that type of response. YOU created an example that fell into the latter category. This thread is not really about domestic violence or the "battered woman syndrome". THIS thread is about ONE PARTICULAR MAN who reacted in a PATICULAR WAY as a result of a PARTICULAR SITUATION evoked by one PARTICULAR WOMAN in his life. Your example noted a PARTICULAR incident and asks a PARTICULAR QUESTION: WAS HIS RESPONSE JUSTIFIED? So regardless as to whether or not I think it is right for a man to hit a woman on a general scale and/or the broadest sense of the issue, my thought-process takes the shape of a more NARROW perspective when given a PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE.

Posing the question about the girlfriend's action was my way of shifting the focus and forcing others to examine BOTH sides of the situation. It's easy to say "Yes he was completely wrong for raising his hand to her","He was a punk for hitting her", or "A real man would never hit a woman" without CRITICALLY looking at the ENTIRE sitution--- who was involved, what was it about, where and when did it take place, how were those involved affected, and why did those involved choose to react the way that they did [what was their motive(s)?]. Instead of only seeing what's presented on the surface, people should try diving a little deeper to discover "what lies beneath" on the ocean floor.... cause some issues are not as CLEAR-CUT as they may seem.

I see your point, but again it appears that you're on the fence with - no he shouldn't unless the circumstance warrants it. So then, other than the boyfriend's response to the abortion, under what circumstance [narrowly] or how many circumstances [broadly] would a man be justified in slapping a woman?

You should know that I'm not judging your response as right or wrong, and that I find it very interesting.

Interesting because although life is very precious, and the girlfriend aborted one, can it be said that the response from the boyfriend was an emotional response? And if so, again in this circumstance, shouldn't he have better controlled himself? I can appreciate the fact the slap may have been his immediate response, but there are many issues where some men are not in control of their emotions, and believe that there is a time/circumstance where they are justified when they slap a woman. I don't think that this circumstance, as narrow as it may appear, is deserving of a "justifiable" slap. For example, in the same circumstance, the girlfriend has an abortion but this time the boyfriend realizes the great emotional stress that she experienced, and although upset, addressed her needs as best that he could, offering her support, etc. Would you say that he should have slapped her instead, because she created a situation that justified it? Or would you commend the boyfriend for not only being in control of his emotional responses, but went the extra mile?

Consider this, as the boyfriend maybe he realized that if he had been better prepared to father a child, meaning making a real commitment to his girlfriend first by marrying her, providing a place, dollars and cents, etc, she probably would not have had to go through that experience. In other words, maybe he realized that he created that situation.

As narrow an issue as this circumstance may appear, it is part of a broad problem, because most men who slap women say that she "created the situation" and thus received the "justifiable" slap. Sadly, men also make them believe it.

I await your response and "underlying implication." :)

Originally Posted by Zorro

So then, other than the boyfriend's response to the abortion, under what circumstance [narrowly] or how many circumstances [broadly] would a man be justified in slapping a woman?

most men who slap women say that she "created the situation" and thus received the "justifiable" slap. :)

I think the number of circumstances are very small. I think the number of circumstances for any adults putting their hands on another is small as well. I just think people should give thought to emotion and emotional reactions. Some female telling me she has aborted my child, that's serious. Now honestly I think I'd be too stunned to do anything but cry in that situation, but if someone else did smack a woman in that situation I just can't blame them. The situation is too emotional. Like when I said I'd hurt my wife if I caught her in my bed with another man. Do you really blame me for that? Or what if a woman kidnapped my child or killed my child or some other loved one and I had the opportunity to smack the ish out of her. Can you blame me in that situation? What's an "appropriate" reaction????

IMO though, most men who hit women are messed up in the head. For them it goes beyond a serious emotional incident. I know quite a few who think it's okay to hit a woman the same as hitting a child, like some form of discipline. How do you discipline your significant other??? If I felt like some female's mother and father still had work to do I wouldn't even be with sistagirl.

[Proudbrothaman]

On the real, if the man or the women feel the need to put hands on the other, they don't need to be together. I don't think there is a good enough reason for anyone to be laying the smack down. I saw my father swing on my mother one time... needless to say my brothers and I stomp him to sleep.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by RanRan

I think the number of circumstances are very small. I think the number of circumstances for any adults putting their hands on another is small as well. I just think people should give thought to emotion and emotional reactions. Some female telling me she has aborted my child, that's serious. Now honestly I think I'd be too stunned to do anything but cry in that situation, but if someone else did smack a woman in that situation I just can't blame them. The situation is too emotional. Like when I said I'd hurt my wife if I caught her in my bed with another man. Do you really blame me for that? Or what if a woman kidnapped my child or killed my child or some other loved one and I had the opportunity to smack the ish out of her. Can you blame me in that situation? What's an "appropriate" reaction????

IMO though, most men who hit women are messed up in the head. For them it goes beyond a serious emotional incident. I know quite a few who think it's okay to hit a woman the same as hitting a child, like some form of discipline. How do you discipline your significant other??? If I felt like some female's mother and father still had work to do I wouldn't even be with sistagirl.

I hear you. Taking kids, and killing is an "all bets are off" scenario. Who ever gets caught in the process of commiting that act gets more than a justifiable slap.

[Serenity4Ever]

Zorro, I agree with Ran in the sense that they aren't many circumstances where a slap would be justified. However, abortion just happens to be one of those issues where I think it is very much justified. You keep saying that I'm on the fence and I really have no problem with that or even being there because when a specific situation is presented within the context configuration of a general societal issue, the lines of right vs. wrong, agree or disagree, justified vs. unjustified becomes blurred and "gray"--- NOT specifically BLACK or Specifically WHITE. If you wanted a clear cut yes or no answer , then you should have left the abortion situation alone and just posted the general question "Is it right for a man to hit a woman?" That would have allowed responders to take either position and come up with their own examples to support their perspective. Presenting your example caused responders (pehaps like myself) to think about the issue (men hitting women) in terms of that specific scenario (girlfriend tells her boyfriend she had an abortion). It changes the dynamic structure of the question you posed for this thread. The "issue" at hand has been linked with an entirely different issue therefore the responses will incorporate a combination of where posters stand on both issues. I don't agree with abortion and I don't agree with men hitting women but according to the scenario you gave, I now have to make a choice as to which position I value the most. I love babies with all my heart so when a woman makes the decision to murder a being that I truly cherrish and her boyfriend smacks her because of this selfish haneous decision, I cannot and will not fault him or persecute him for that. I value a baby's right to live a whole lot more than a man slapping his girlfriend as a result of something that she did to him.

Could he have better controled his emotions? NO. He had a right to feel frustrated and angry. This is his BABY we're talking about---not some trivial thing that he over-reacted to. Men who have a history of abusing women do so over the smallest things (i.e. new clothes, unwashed dishes, meals that don't seem to be good enough, too much communication with family members or friends, seeming to "friendly" to other men, etc.) Now could he have chosen a better way to deal with or express his emotions? ABSOLUTELY. He could have let her know how hurt he was, walked away from her to avoid physically attacking her, he could have broke up with her at that moment and then just leave. No he did not have to slap her, but the reality of the situation is that he did. It's easy to paint him as a vicious man but you never said that he beat her on a regular basis.... so why should he all of a sudden be catagorized as a "woman abuser" just because of this one incident where he was completely justified? In your second example---where the boyfriend offered support even though he was angry...... I think that's admirable and commendable, but I don't see that as being a realistic reaction. When a person feels betrayed by someone they love and trust, their initial reaction isn't going to be "okay you did this to me, but it's alright because I'm going to help you through this trying time." That is a very rational decision to make..... a decision that the begining phase of intense anger, which produces adrenaline-filled erratic behavior (yelling, screaming punching walls, throwing and/or breaking things, kicking doors, etc.) will not let a person come to. Besides if the girlfriend was as "emotionally distressed" as you imply that she is in this example, then she wouldn't have gone through with the abortion. If she needed his support that badly, she wouldn't have did it behind his back---she would have wanted him with her and taken the time to include him throughout the entire process, not just "after the fact". Even if the boyfriend came to the conclusion that, like you said, he created the situaton by realizing that he wouldn't have been financially stable enough to raise this baby so his girlfriend really had no other choice exept to abort it....... even if this was the case, it is highly unlikely that he would have been angry. He probably would have encouraged her to go ahead and do it because in both of their minds, it would have been to best thing to do.

Do you how complex this has become? This "complexity" is the reason I say some things are not black nor white, but in fact gray. It's an issue within another issue and the more examples you give, the more complicated it gets. Zorro you have worked my brain and I can appreciate that...... But I think after I log off the net tonight I'm gonna have a drink! This "intricate debate" is wearing me out! LOL

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Serenity4Ever

Zorro, I agree with Ran in the sense that they aren't many circumstances where a slap would be justified. However, abortion just happens to be one of those issues where I think it is very much justified. You keep saying that I'm on the fence and I really have no problem with that or even being there because when a specific situation is presented within the context configuration of a general societal issue, the lines of right vs. wrong, agree or disagree, justified vs. unjustified becomes blurred and "gray"--- NOT specifically BLACK or Specifically WHITE. If you wanted a clear cut yes or no answer , then you should have left the abortion situation alone and just posted the general question "Is it right for a man to hit a woman?" That would have allowed responders to take either position and come up with their own examples to support their perspective. Presenting your example caused responders (pehaps like myself) to think about the issue (men hitting women) in terms of that specific scenario (girlfriend tells her boyfriend she had an abortion). It changes the dynamic structure of the question you posed for this thread. The "issue" at hand has been linked with an entirely different issue therefore the responses will incorporate a combination of where posters stand on both issues. I don't agree with abortion and I don't agree with men hitting women but according to the scenario you gave, I now have to make a choice as to which position I value the most. I love babies with all my heart so when a woman makes the decision to murder a being that I truly cherrish and her boyfriend smacks her because of this selfish haneous decision, I cannot and will not fault him or persecute him for that. I value a baby's right to live a whole lot more than a man slapping his girlfriend as a result of something that she did to him.

Could he have better controled his emotions? NO. He had a right to feel frustrated and angry. This is his BABY we're talking about---not some trivial thing that he over-reacted to. Men who have a history of abusing women do so over the smallest things (i.e. new clothes, unwashed dishes, meals that don't seem to be good enough, too much communication with family members or friends, seeming to "friendly" to other men, etc.) Now could he have chosen a better way to deal with or express his emotions? ABSOLUTELY. He could have let her know how hurt he was, walked away from her to avoid physically attacking her, he could have broke up with her at that moment and then just leave. No he did not have to slap her, but the reality of the situation is that he did. It's easy to paint him as a vicious man but you never said that he beat her on a regular basis.... so why should he all of a sudden be catagorized as a "woman abuser" just because of this one incident where he was completely justified? In your second example---where the boyfriend offered support even though he was angry...... I think that's admirable and commendable, but I don't see that as being a realistic reaction. When a person feels betrayed by someone they love and trust, their initial reaction isn't going to be "okay you did this to me, but it's alright because I'm going to help you through this trying time." That is a very rational decision to make..... a decision that the begining phase of intense anger, which produces adrenaline-filled erratic behavior (yelling, screaming punching walls, throwing and/or breaking things, kicking doors, etc.) will not let a person come to. Besides if the girlfriend was as "emotionally distressed" as you imply that she is in this example, then she wouldn't have gone through with the abortion. If she needed his support that badly, she wouldn't have did it behind his back---she would have wanted him with her and taken the time to include him throughout the entire process, not just "after the fact". Even if the boyfriend came to the conclusion that, like you said, he created the situaton by realizing that he wouldn't have been financially stable enough to raise this baby so his girlfriend really had no other choice exept to abort it....... even if this was the case, it is highly unlikely that he would have been angry. He probably would have encouraged her to go ahead and do it because in both of their minds, it would have been to best thing to do.

Do you how complex this has become? This "complexity" is the reason I say some things are not black nor white, but in fact gray. It's an issue within another issue and the more examples you give, the more complicated it gets. Zorro you have worked my brain and I can appreciate that...... But I think after I log off the net tonight I'm gonna have a drink! This "intricate debate" is wearing me out! LOL

Serenity4Ever,

I applaude you, and your commentary was nicely articulated. When I first joined the site and reviewed some of the posts and responses, I felt that many weren't taking out the time to address the bottom line issues. They took the time to respond, but there was nothing to walk away with in the end other than a whole bunch of responses. Then there were those who were trying to figure out whether the person who posted had the problem. It was also my opinoin that in some areas, if responses from different people were combined, then we had something to benefit from.

I believed that if this is a site to help our people, we have to put the issue on the table, and not just eat it, but digest it. And if the meal wasn't good, we spit it out or vomit it out, and let the person who prepared the food know that it was no good. Can the person become a better cook if we keep silent? We need to take the time to let each other know when something is foul. On the other hand, if the meal was good, we let them know and everyone walks away satisfied.

For many years, we've had to deal with stuff, especially emotional issues not knowing that they were just that. Then we raise babies who become adults with the same issues to repeat. True, there are some issues that are gray, and we must do the best that we can we finally decide what to do. Sometimes going to our higher power is the answer, and if everyone just follows the answer given, it should eliminate that issue from coming back.

In my opinion, your commentary [I say commentary respectfully because it's more than a simple response.] has just raised the bar for want should be expected when we do "respond to a post that may appear to be a hottie (a real social issue among black people.) We should take the time to see the issue, deal with it, expound on it, even try to settle it. This world keeps many off guard and damaged with it's vicisitudes. Is it ok for same sex marriage, is it ok because it's a woman's right to chose, why can't I wear this short dress in the work place, why is the teacher charged with rape if the 14 year-old is already sexually active and fathered a child w/his 13 year-old girlfriend, etc. [Just examples here.] Yeah, after addressing issues like this, and we do everyday, in order to relax , we just might need a drink. However, with responses like yours, we'll realize that we can depend on each other for help and when we do have that drink whether by ourself or with each other, it'll be to "relax" and not to "escape," which would present another issue. Much Power To You My Sister. Keep On Bringing It! :)