Proposal would ban underwear-exposing pants

[MzKwietStorm]

By DAVID PENDERED
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/22/07

Atlanta bill would outlaw public show of underwear | ajc.com

Exposed boxer shorts and thongs would be illegal in any public place in Atlanta if the City Council approves a proposed amendment to the city's indecency laws.

The target is young men who wear their pants low off their hips to show off the two pairs of boxers they wear beneath their saggy pants, said Atlanta Councilman C.T. Martin, a college recruitment consultant who sponsored the ordinance. Saggy pants are an "epidemic" that are becoming a "major concern" in cities and states around the country, the ordinance reads.

"Little children see it and want to adopt it, thinking it's the in thing," Martin said Wednesday. "I don't want young people thinking that half-dressing is the way to go. I want them to think about their future."

Under the proposed ordinance, women also couldn't reveal the strap of a thong beneath their pants. Nor could they wear jogging bras in public or show off even a wisp of a bra strap, said Debbie Seagraves, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia.

The proposed ordinance states that "the indecent exposure of his or her undergarments" would be unlawful in a public place. It would go in the same portion of the city code that outlaws sex in public and the exposure or fondling of genitals and the breast of a woman. Martin said the penalty would be a fine in an amount to be determined.

Seagraves said any legislation that creates a dress code would not survive a court challenge. She said there's no way the law could be enforced in a nondiscriminatory way. She said it targets a cultural phenomenon that came out of the black youth culture.

"This is a racial profiling bill that promotes and establishes a framework for an additional type of racial profiling," Seagraves said.

Several cities have considered banning saggy pants but only one is known to have adopted a measure, Seagraves said. Delcambre, La., is the only city she knows of that passed such an ordinance. It carries a fine of up to $500 or six months in jail for exposing underwear in public, according to a description of it in Martin's proposed ordinance.

Makeda Johnson, an Atlanta mother of a 14-year-old daughter, said she's glad Martin introduced the proposal. She doesn't want to see a law against attire, but said she thinks teens are sending a message with a way of dressing that's based in jailhouse behavior.

Johnson said she understands the phenomenon of saggy pants started when prisoners' belts were taken off and the prisoners' pants drooped down. Once teens who'd been arrested were back on the street, they wore saggy pants to show the loss of a belt does not mean a loss of personal power. Other teens followed suit to show support, she said.

"Do I want them arrested for that? No. Do I want them harassed? No," she said. "But I salute [Martin] for having the courage to say we need to do something. Finally we've gone beyond saying, 'Pull up your pants,' to saying we need to bring a focus on the message our young people are sending."

Martin, who is African-American, said he intends to convene public hearings and vet the proposal through churches, civil rights groups and neighborhood organizations. The proposal will get its first public airing Aug. 28 in the City Council's Public Safety Committee.

"The purpose of the paper is to generate some conversation to see if we can find a solution," Martin said. "It will be like all the discussions we've had around the value of the hip-hop culture. We know there are First Amendment issues ... and some will say I'm just trying to put young black men in jail, but it's going to be fines."

Saramaat Johnson, the daughter of Makeda Johnson, said she thinks the whole question of exposing underwear as a fashion statement is a matter of taste. Sometimes it's good; sometimes it's not.

"It's something that can be done nicely, but other people can take it to the extreme and get ridiculous with it. And a lot of people are doing it."

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[UglymanCometh]

I love it! I knew the ACLU would be on the wrong side of it, of course.

Now I'm just waiting on the urban fashion and hip-hop communities to cry outrage.

This is something that should have been done a LONG time ago. I'm glad that Atlanta is progressive enough to bring it to light. Hopefully, other urban areas will follow accordingly.

Personally I don't like the government so deep into my personal life. The idea of the government so deep into my *** that it can dictate how I dress turns me off.
Whats really odd to me is Atlanta was recently ranked the most dangerous big city, yet they have time to for legislation like this.

[UglymanCometh]

If we didn't have so many young men wearing pants half way down to their knees... and women dressing like prostitutes-in-training, I'd say that this is unnecessary.

But since that's not the case...

[Gorilla]

Don't they have anything better to do?

[afrocentric]

either way, i would like to a change in the saggin department. i don't mind the baggy ones with a belt on but to see someones underwear is disrepectful. now i have to admit i have seen some fine looking brothers that know how to dress dam good (fantasing about treach for naughty by nature)but , anyway..... showing the underwear is a nono.

[UglymanCometh]

Originally Posted by Gorilla

Don't they have anything better to do?

It's Atlanta, they do.

However, this is something that needs to be dealt with.

[slickbitty]

I reserve comment since some people will call me an aunt thomasina.....

but in my mind....if the parents ain't gonna do it.......

[ardamus]

They tried it in Virginia a little while ago and it didn't work. Dumb idea and it could result in various police enforcement that may not be needed. Sorry but thats how I feel about it.

[Istlota]

Originally Posted by UglymanCometh

If we didn't have so many young men wearing pants half way down to their knees... and women dressing like prostitutes-in-training, I'd say that this is unnecessary.

But since that's not the case...

I hate sagging pants. When my son was in high school, at least the pants stopped just above the fattest part of the top of their butts and the fellas wore belts that kept them from falling any further. But, now, the young turks have to walk with one hand holding up their pants to keep 'em from falling to their ankles.

But, even so, I think passing laws against that sort of thing is the height of hypocrisy. My problem is that I still remember those idiotic fluorescent green, red, and yellow walking suits the fellas used to wear on the block when I was in high school. And, I remember those half boots with 8 inch _transparent_ heels that the _guys_ used to wear. And, I remember those halter top kind of things that the girls use to wear that looked like the bottom half had been sent thru a paper shredder. And, I remember some of the hot pants they used to wear to parties that just barely covered the bottom curve of their butts -- and, you know, sistas have alway had a lot of butt to cover -- and I remember that those hot pants appeared to have been, apparently, painted on. Lord only know how they managed to go take a tinkle without having a couple of girlfriends to help them in and out of their clothes.

And, I remember that, while technically, those hot pants completely covered their private parts, in reality, it didn't matter because you could see the imprint thru those skin-tight hot pants of every mole, every pimple, every strand of pubic hair, and each fold of their bottom lips.

Are today's fashions any worse than all that? Not really. My generation has just developed an acute case of amnesia.