Does No Father Really Make A Difference?

[Sess20]

Originally Posted by Rammcsnake

Good father figures are important not neccessarily biological fathers. It takes a village to raise a child. And all I originallay said is that there is to much precedence made to not having the biological father around and teaching the child. Teaching the child what???? Too many people want the father around no matter what kind of person the father is. If he is there to just help with the shopping or something like that then thats o.k. LOL. But be careful because its usually more to it than that.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING I MEAN MY FATHER WAS LIVING IN THE HOUSE WHEN I WAS A BABY BUT HE WAS ON DRUGS AND ABUSING MY MOTHER DAILY. SO IM SURE THAT MY MOTHER DIDN'T NEED THAT. MY POINT IS A FATHER CAN BE THERE AND DO NOTHING AT ALL. I KNOW ALOT OF FATHERS LIKE THAT AND I THINK THAT IT IS SAD.

[Corals]

[quote=bluesky][quote=Rammcsnake] Too many people want the father around no matter what kind of person the father is.

So you think a father should be denied bonding with his child because he sells drugs, in and out of jail, consumes alcohol, listens to gangsta rap, ect. I'd rather have a father who does those thinks yet takes care of me and one that doesn't do anything at all. Who's to say that one day this man turns his life around stops selling drugs, stays out of jail, becomes a recovering alcoholic, start listening to gospel music---

There is some logic to what Rammcsnake said.

No one can deny the positive effect having a father adds to a child's life. Yet, if the father is a drug dealer, sleeps with all kind of women, is in and out of jail etc, is that not going to have a negative effect on the child?

Of course, we hear stories of men turning their lives around, which is commendable, but that in itself does not mean that the child's mind and heart would not fester at some later date.

Yet, it is strange how some women would not have these type of men, drug dealers etc, in their lives, but are prepared to have them in their childrens'.

[bluesky]

Originally Posted by Corals

There is some logic to what Rammcsnake said.

No one can deny the positive effect having a father adds to a child's life. Yet, if the father is a drug dealer, sleeps with all kind of women, is in and out of jail etc, is that not going to have a negative effect on the child?

'

And if he's not involved does that not have a negative effect on the child? What if he's in the home but to busy to spend time or ignore the child, is that not going to have a negative effect on the child? Yet it is not always about him the man being a bad influence but is he providing and giving your child the mental and emotional stability that's needed.

Originally Posted by Corals

Of course, we hear stories of men turning their lives around, which is commendable, but that in itself does not mean that the child's mind and heart would not fester at some later date.

Please elaborate.

As I see any relationship can be enstranged and fester at a later date but if the father was involved you can at least think back on the memories that you did have with him even if you aren't speak with him now. I do believe that when one is/was involved it is easier to forgive them and listen to their explanations versus all of the sudden drop in parent....here I am I've changed.

Yes, there are fathers and mothers who aren't good role models by the lifestyle they live but there are those who live "negative lifestyles" and have a genuine love and concern for their children, go above and beyond to protect them and make sure that they are provided for or make decisions for their child's best interest even when they know they are doing wrong.

Originally Posted by Corals

Yet, it is strange how some women would not have these type of men, drug dealers etc, in their lives, but are prepared to have them in their childrens'.

Apparently these woman already had "these type men" in their lives as they have fathered their children. If he was lazy, didn't work, going in and out of jail, abusing drugs, drinking daily when you met him and and you continued/pursued the relationship and then had his child(ren). Just because you know look back and think "oh he's a deadbeat" well you should have realize that when you were laying up with him but don't exclude your child from having a relationship with their father based on your personal opinions and experience with their father.

Don't fault your child for wanting his/her father life even though you don't think "he's good enough" because at some point this man was "good enough" for you to open your legs and be the mother of his children. Don't blame your child or allow him/her to be involved with his father (one who wants to be involved) because you irrate, pissed and have personal issues with theri father.

Yes, many women go around bad mouthing the father of their children because they didn't have the common sense to leave him alone knowing these things about him or rather the signs were there when they met now they complaining about the man being worthless.

Sorry as a woman if a father wants to be involved and you don't agree with his lifestyle you should be able to speak with your child's father and explain your concerns/issues. Come up with supervisory time where he/she can be with his child for in your presence. There are ways that if a man "wants" to be involved you can have a handle in helping your child in not being influenced by the negativity while establishing a relationship with his dad.

Bluesky with all due respect Ill have to say thats complete nonsense.
In other cases you would say two wrongs dont make a right. Why not this one? It is even more important and involves the young ones.
To say that the mother had the father in her life prior to having the kid is not a good reason to continue being involved with him or having the children involved with him. It will serve everyone better if the father will concentrate on getting his life completely together positively before anymore involvement with the children unless its just for financial support. If he really wants to spend time with the children and really cares so much then that means the faster he will get himself together. Matter of fact he should want it that way not only for his sake but of course the childrens sake also.
Thats one of the things wrong today. People say they so much far tough love. Its only represented by a toungue lashing. Its all talk and no real action is taken in the long run and for the long run.

[Corals]

What would have a more negative effect on a child, having a father who is in the house, but is lazy and does not give the child attention, or a father who is a drug dealer, womaniser and is in and out of prison?

If he is the latter, I doubt he will have to show the child any attention. Furthermore, when you look at children who are unruly or who are always in trouble with the police for one reason or another, can you honestly say that the vast majority of influence came about because the dad was lazy and did not show the child enough attention? While I agree that may have a small bearing on the matter, it does not outweigh the other reasons.

If a child is living in such an environment, 9 out of 10 times, it would seem normal to him, so in like manner the child would probably grow up to be like his dad.

Like I said before too much precedence is payed to a biological father that is in all kinds of trouble not being there if thats the case. If the mother putted more energy in trying to be a good mother, finding a good father figure or figures, learning to not be a self racial hater if she is, being a better mother figure and stop buying so much junk for the herself and the kids if thats the case and it often times is then the family as a whole would be in much better shape. Just have good intentions, dont be ignorant, and the most high will help you more.

[bluesky]

Originally Posted by Rammcsnake

Bluesky with all due respect Ill have to say thats complete nonsense. In other cases you would say two wrongs dont make a right. Why not this one?

What's wrong with a father wanting to spend time with his child? Just because he's not living the lifestyle one would agree with doesn't mean he doesn't love his children any less or should be completely removed from this child's life? 8 out of 10 times it's not about the father's wrong doing but rather personal issues between the parents. ps --I can't salsa but I love the latin music.

Originally Posted by Rammcsnake

It is even more important and involves the young ones. To say that the mother had the father in her life prior to having the kid is not a good reason to continue being involved with him or having the children involved with him.

Women need to quit playing "victim" to a situation. Take responsibility for your actions and involvment. Quit complaining about the man when you knew how he was stayed with him and had children with him. Look at yourself and choice in a partner before you start criticizing about "the lack thereof" or "him not doing his share". Again, it the parents with personal issues, previous experiences and personal vendettas that don't want the fathers to be involved.

Originally Posted by Rammcsnake

It will serve everyone better if the father will concentrate on getting his life completely together positively before anymore involvement with the children unless its just for financial support.

No nonsense is accepting my child support payment but not allowing me to spend time with my child but at the same time complaining to my child and others that I'm triffling, a deadbeat father, sorry excuse of a man, ect.

Originally Posted by Rammcsnake

[b] If he really wants to spend time with the children and really cares so much then that means the faster he will get himself together. Matter of fact he should want it that way not only for his sake but of course the childrens sake also.

Is the father suppose to "disappear" until he get his act together and then make his move or try to become involved with his children? So basically iyour theory is f he's living an unacceptable lifestyle for 15 years he should have no involvement with his children so in the 16th year he decides to make a change. It takes 2 to 3 years from him to get on the right track (jobs, AA Narcotics meetings, ect). So finally when the child is 18 the father should become involved in their child's life--- because after all that means he really cares so much to get himself togeter for his children's sake.

And if one is getting there act together why would you not want the support of your child(ren)/family or demonstrate to them that you are changing and trying for the better? Again, I am speaking for personal experience as I feel just as my best friend's mother was living an "unacceptable lifestyle-drugs, alcohol, prostitution" I highly doubt her mother loves and cares her daughter any less than my mother loves and cares for me.

Originally Posted by Rammcsnake

Thats one of the things wrong today. People say they so much far tough love. Its only represented by a toungue lashing. Its all talk and no real action is taken in the long run and for the long run.

This I don't understand--maybe you could elaborate.

While enough biological fathers are not given credit for trying, being fathers, taking on their responsibilities, spending time with their children ect... but instead criticized and backlashed. If some mothers spent less energy trying to stop men from being fathers, bytching, griping, and moaning and realize many do have good intentions--who knows which way the world would turn?

[Kevin]

What's needed is good parenting period.
I do believe the ideal situation is to have a mother and father in the house.
But if the father is a dead beat, ignores the child, beats the child, or the mother
it can be more damaged than a help.
One good parent can bebetter than a two parents, one being horrible the other being good

[GLC 3]

Hell yes everyone needs a father. My father didn't talk much or was very affectionate but he instilled in me a strong work ethic and a sense of right and wrong. If it were not for him there's a very good chance i would be in jail right now.

[Tinkertoy]

Yup, he sure do. And, there's two ways to look at it (at least). He can be a positive role model and provide an example or how to be, OR, he can provide you a model of how not to be. No need to elaborate!!