Issues With My Middle Son

[Its Ok 2 B Quiet]

The attitudes of my oldest sons are light night and day. I use to try and treat them the same but finally my light came on that you can't - they're two different people with different personalities. While I know the oldest isn't a saint, he's been consistent with his actions. He stays busy with activities, doesn't hang out with negative folks, does his school work and when it does slip, he's quick to pull up.

My middle son is on a totally different page. He doesn't seem to want to go to school and he does just enough to get through but never really applies himself. Thing is he is so smart and very technical - he will not apply himself to much of anything. If I ask him what he wants to do, he just says "I don't know". He stays involved in drama at school and most of the time its pertaining to girls and his so-called friends. Always concerned with how he looks, wants nice things but doesn't want to work for anything. There have been teachers, me, assistant principal who try and be supportive; to encourage him, motivate him to do what we know he can do. Then he makes stupid decisions (i.e., cut class, not doing work, talking in class, etc.). And he never takes responsibility for his actions - even when its clearly his doing.

When I get in his ***, he acts like something is wrong with me. Its like he doesn't care about anything or anyone unless he's getting his way. He gets mad because he feels that his brother gets more attention but he gets it because he's involved in more activities. He has to be dropped off and picked up a lot. He doesn't get grounded because he doesn't give a reason to be grounded and I feel that he's trying to use this as a cop out. I've shadowed him at school all day, chewed him out in front of class, grounded, taken things away, whooped is ***, all of it and he just doesn't get it.

I don't want to give up but at what point do you let them fall? I am I getting tired? Yes because he just doesn't seem to care about his future and can't seem to tell me what he wants.

[Evil_eyez]

I Have Some Students Like That. My Sister Also Is Heading Down That Path. Sometimes We Want To Help Them So Much That It Cause Us As Parents And Guardians To Feel The Brunt Of It. Sometimes We Have To Let Them Fall As Hard As It Might Be. They Have Been Helped But Haven't Accepted Or Appreciated It. So It's Time For Them To Help Themselves; Take Responsibility. They Have To Want It Not Us.

[Istlota]

He may think that he is less loved than his other siblings and is being a hard case as some sort of immature response to what he thinks is an unfair situation. Keep in mind that he is a kid, I am guessing a teenage kid, and it is unrealistic to expect them to think and behave rationally.

Middle kids do typically get treated differently. It is not a case of us parents loving them any less. It is just that it is human nature for us to be more affectionate toward the youngest. And, we give the oldest more trust and respect because, one, they have had more time to earn it and, two, they have had more time to become more mature. Unfortunately, the middle kid translates all this as meaning he is less loved, which isn't true. But, that really isn't the point. The point is that he thinks he is true.

You have a huge challenge but no one ever said parenting was easy. Certainly, you don't just let him fall. I mean, you didn't mention any of the really bad stuff some kids are doing --- stealing, selling drugs, gang-banging -- so I am guessing he is far from incorrigible.

Your challenge is, while still insisting that he follow the rules of your house, to convince him that he is just as much loved as his siblings. Telling him so won't help. You have to show him by actions that, over time, start to make an impression.

Figure out some recreational activity that he and you can do, together, with no one else, on a regular basis.

[Curious1]

I don't know how old your middle son is...but...I come to realize that kids have no true outlets anymore..They've taken music, arts, some places even wood shop and home-ec out of the schools..like way back in the day...But teaching kids these other survival skills yet fun..besides just the CRCT and 3R's in life...And, shoot, most boys need outlets...Like...uh...Mayeb sign him up to learn how to drum or do karate/martial arts...or go down to your neighborhood boxing center learn how to "box"...as an energy outlet...They can learn some self defense discipline, confidence building from some of those men who can often instill in them as they learn to upper cut, jab and all that round house...lol...shoot, learn how to train right physically and as a young man in training in life...Or maybe he could use a little job,try bust boy or something at a restaurant...something??? Boys 2 men Rites of Passage some young to tween boys go thru can be a Monster...UGH....(I'm recalling things my older siblings did to their boys at varying ages...and man, their dads(my bro's) didn't play...they got 'em in league ball teams up to certain age to making them learn karate to boxing to even signing their baddy butts up for Habitat for Humanity housing projects via their jobs...and even, here having them go "feed the hungry" (Hosea Williams) or anything that they could volunteer to see how the "other half lives"...less fortunate...Boy, I remember them going toe to toe with some knucklehead, stubborn tween to teen nephew over how they really have led some sheltered lives and don't know how it really means to be strugglin'. I think we have spoiled out kids as a whole in this country...they don't seem to really get a sense of personal accomplishment or need to work hard to see their own results on their own efforts...things handed to them...paths made for them...they get bored and worse...expectant that someone else is gonna bail them out and come to their rescue on stuff...I'd say set your ground and house rules again...but make him do an extracurricular thing not even say..school related but something he's enjoy...fully rounded as a person

We found putting the "I don't know".."nonchalant".."idle mind" kid in an activity (extracurricular in nature) that they may like to learn to do...something to give them an outlet that allows them to vent their energy...

Middle niecey loves her dance, girl scouts, anything active and involved...

Youngest niecey loves going to Home Depot on some of those saturday kidworkshops...she likes making those kid wood project stuff..(she's a lil tom boy-ish...lol..but girly looking on the outside)

The oldest niecey...is a trip..but so far believe it or not..she actually likes learning how to drum/percussion lessons...who'da thought...(WE HAVE GREAT BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS WITH THIS ONE !!!

[Its Ok 2 B Quiet]

I don't know how to do the "thank you" so thank you for your input. My middle son is 16 (17 in June - they're 18 months apart). Istolta while I understand what your saying, its frustrating to try and "feed someone" when you have no idea what they like or want. If there was some idea of what he wanted to do, I could push him in that direct like I do with the oldest one. He comes off like he doesn't care about anyone or anything.

Today things took a turn for worse with us getting in to it and me sending him out of my house. I've been fortunate that he isn't a gang banger, doing drugs/drinking etc but I feel like his actions are leading him towards something that's not good. There is something that I am going to try with him that might work that he's shown interest in. It is a mentoring program his brother is in and I've talked to the leader today. He's going to work with my son (mentor) and keep him busy at the meetings. He is expected to have good grades, participate in activities with the league.

I don't want to give up on my son because I see he has some real potential (all parents do I guess) but like Evil Eyez said, they have to want it.

[Mr Gumbo]

Yeah sounds like he's jealous of the older son, all the attention. 16 is a crazy age too. Just stay on him is about all you can do, try just doing different activities with him and maybe you might get a hit on something that he likes.

[afrocentric]

The attitudes of my oldest sons are light night and day. I use to try and treat them the same but finally my light came on that you can't - they're two different people with different personalities. While I know the oldest isn't a saint, he's been consistent with his actions. He stays busy with activities, doesn't hang out with negative folks, does his school work and when it does slip, he's quick to pull up.

My middle son is on a totally different page. He doesn't seem to want to go to school and he does just enough to get through but never really applies himself. Thing is he is so smart and very technical - he will not apply himself to much of anything. If I ask him what he wants to do, he just says "I don't know". He stays involved in drama at school and most of the time its pertaining to girls and his so-called friends. Always concerned with how he looks, wants nice things but doesn't want to work for anything. There have been teachers, me, assistant principal who try and be supportive; to encourage him, motivate him to do what we know he can do. Then he makes stupid decisions (i.e., cut class, not doing work, talking in class, etc.). And he never takes responsibility for his actions - even when its clearly his doing.

i'm going thru the same thing. it's a constant battle to get these two to act right.

[s8loud]

It sounds like you're focusing more on what he does wrong than what he does right, although I can certainly understand how easy that is to do, cuz at 16, doing the right thing should be the rule, not the exception. However, given the situation, you could try some simple positive reinforcement, making a big deal out of the good that he does; that let's him know that you're paying attention to his efforts and, thus, that you care about him.

Also, you mentioned that you don't know what he wants. That suggests to me that you might not spend much (or enough) time with him, whether by choice or not. If at all possible, set aside some time for just the two of you. At 16, he may not be open to such a direct overture, so you may have to 'plan it' so that the two of you end up in situations where it's just the two of you together (and let things flow from there).

Whatever you decide, do your best not to do things that create distance between the two of you (like sending him out of the house), cuz that may indeed be the root cause of all this. You may have to seek out new ways of communicating with him as well as finding other methods of getting him to open up to you, cuz the "I don't know"s are often just an easy way to avoid confronting what it is he really wants, and it's up to you to either get it out of him or help him find it.

Good luck.

[Its Ok 2 B Quiet]

s8loud - I am somewhat at loss as what to say. I see the potential in him, I know that he is smart (very technical and when it presents itself, very focused). I know I can ask him to do something and he'll do it like he was told with the exception of school. But when I look back and at things, he does make poor choices. Its not that I try to focus only on the negative but his actions tend to be that. There has to be some accountability for his actions/behavior and he doesn't think there should be any.

He chooses to be the class clown and focus on everything else but what is priority...his education. They're dad has never been a participant when it came to them but I am always here and make them a priority. My son has been producing "below average/average" work since elementary - just doing enough to get by and sometimes it didn't work. As I said before, he has so many people that pull for him (including me) and he never gives anything back. Isn't it time that he show those who have his best interest at heart what and who they're fighting for? He continues to make poor choices and not work to the level that everyone knows he can.

He told me that I couldn't talk to him the way I did yesterday but he thinks that he can disrespect me nd that I won't call him on it. I wish I had told my parents or grandmother something about talking to me a certain way - I'd be picking my teeth up off the floor. He has been jealous of his brother since middle school but how can you be jealous because he does his work and makes honor roll, but you won't do it? It would be the same if he would apply himself which is something that I constantly tell him but he chooses to do the opposite. Because of his track record, I worry more when he's out of my sight. I worry that something will happen or he will make another poor choice that will get him in trouble or hurt and he doesn't seem to understand that.

For me, I realize that he hasn't received as much nuturing as he needed. Part of it comes from the "challenge" of dealing with him and figuring him out. Maybe it was easier to "not participate" as much as I did with his brother.

I hear what you (and the others) are saying but I just feel that he has to be held accountable for his actions/behavior as well.

[s8loud]

Indeed, he should be held accountable for what he does, but rather it being a punitive measure taken when he falls short, perhaps do some things with him to show him what could be the results of the (poor) choices he makes. For instance, take him to a homeless shelter to help out and even speak to some of the people to get their stories. Showing him the results of choices he makes could make an impression on him, and hopefully a lasting one.

As far as school goes, it might benefit both of you to find out the root cause of why he doesn't seem to be motivated. If he's bored, you might try looking for other activities that provide a different and related spin on whatever he's studying, just to show him that his studies can be something he can find interesting. Some kids aren't always receptive to today's teaching methods (especially in public school), so forcing them on him when he's already shown some resistance can lead to real disaster down the road. That's why I think taking a different approach might help. The more you participate, the better the situation will become (even if there are some rough patches from time to time). That may ameliorate some of the respect issues you're facing with him as well.

Also, don't worry about letting him fall on his face every now and then. Just be sure you're there to support him if or whenever he does. Again, he'll appreciate and even respect you more when you show that you're 'there' for him.