Legendary Boxer Sugar Ray Robinson Honored With A Commemorative Postage Stamp

[saraphen]

Revered by Muhammad Ali as, "the King, the master, my idol"; and by The Ring magazine as "pound for pound, the greatest boxer of all time"; six-time world champion boxer Sugar Ray Robinson was immortalized today at Madison Square Garden with a commemorative postage stamp. The dedication ceremony took place during the Daily News Golden Gloves Amateur Boxing Tournament finals.

"When Sugar Ray retired in 1965 at the old Garden, up on Eighth Avenue, he received a trophy," explained Thomas Day, U.S. Postal Service Senior Vice President, Government Relations, while dedicating the stamp. "Its inscription read simply: 'The World's Greatest Fighter.' Years later he was named the 'Fighter of the Century.' That is the man we are honoring today. The United States Postal Service is pleased to delight many of Robinson's fans, and commemorate Robinson's legacy with a postage stamp."

http://www.blacknews.com/pr/sugar-ray101.html

I don't know how long it takes to get them in the Post Office, but you always have to ask for them.

[Basil]

Sugar Ray Robinson was probably the greatest boxer EVER! And that's saying alot since cats been fighting since the 1700's.

Only fighter I ever saw who had one punch knockout power moving BACK!

I read an article about him one time, and it was a ring magazine article and they were talking about the best fighters and they were saying stuff like what could the fighter have done to make his standing higher.

So they'd say stuff, like Joe Louis could've retired earlier, or Rocky Marciano could have fought a little longer stuff like that, they get to #1 and its Robinson and they "What could he have done to have made his standing higher on this list?

Walk on water"

[charliekilothree]

Good to see him honored in this way. I'm sure a lot of people will dislike it but so what.

[Baba Ahmed]

Originally Posted by Basil

Sugar Ray Robinson was probably the greatest boxer EVER! And that's saying alot since cats been fighting since the 1700's.

Only fighter I ever saw who had one punch knockout power moving BACK!

I read an article about him one time, and it was a ring magazine article and they were talking about the best fighters and they were saying stuff like what could the fighter have done to make his standing higher.

So they'd say stuff, like Joe Louis could've retired earlier, or Rocky Marciano could have fought a little longer stuff like that, they get to #1 and its Robinson and they "What could he have done to have made his standing higher on this list?

Walk on water"

Could've, should've and would've's can't hold much water, BUT; he could've paced himself a lil longer in the fight for the Light Heavyweight World's Championship in the stiffling heat of Yankee Stadium and completed kik'n the reigning champ's white a.s.s. Then, I think, he'd held 4 different weight class Championships: Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight AND Lightheavy Belts!!! That was a difference of 120 some pounds to 175 pounds.

But onareal, I've never understood why or how media freaks compare athletes' abilities in their professions.

I've always thought that Muhammad 'Ali copied some of Sugar Ray's dancing moves, head movements and punching while moving side ways and/or backwards. Like now there were plenty highly skilled fighters during those times. But the Mafia decided who's who and who'd fight who, alone with a line of crooked promoters.

I've seen a few of his filmed fights, he set standards for many different weight class fighters. Plus he wasn't broke when he passed on. Called a "Pretty Boy" to my knowledge, he had one wife.

[Basil]

Ray Robinson never won a lightweight title, but he did turn pro at the weight, he just won Middleweight and welterweight (you might be thinking about Henry Armstrong)

Ali always said he was inspired by Robinson, its just a natural progression, Robinson took moves from Jack Johnson and Johnson took moves from Peter Jackson

and I think lightheavyweight was just too much for him, he never tried that again

[Baba Ahmed]

From memory, I speak; so there's room for error.

However re what was too much or not, I recall as a very young boy listening to the fight in Yankee Stadium for the light heavyweight champion's title, and later saw films of highlights. It was a extremely humid night; Sugar Ray "ran out of gas." He was kik'n that white boy's ***! The weather's heat and humidity got to him and I think he had to quit. !3th Round? True, weight wise he was at best a heavy middleweight. Other than that he was not mismatched. Bcause he didn't fight that weight again does not mean, definitively, that it was due to weight difference. Or that Joey Maxim was a better fighter.

Natural progression, what's that? I've seen films of Jack Johnson fights and from him to whoever I see little if any similarities of him and Sugar Ray Robinson. Which moves did he "take" from J. Johnson?

[Basil]

Oh I'm not saying he wasn't as good as Maxim or anything, but I'll say it like this. Even when he fought as a lightheavyweight, he wasn't a lightheavyweight, he was still a middleweight, i believed he weighed in at the middleweight limit for the Maxim fight and I'll look it up to confirm
I was wrong, he fought even lower, at 157. Maxim was 173. Yes the heat was a definite factor there, but Robinson knew damn near everything there was to know about boxing. And he never fought anyone that heavy ever again, and he fought off and on until 1965.

Natural progression in terms of 'this' (whoever he is) did what I'm trying to do before I did, so I'll look and see how he did it. Maybe natural progression is the wrong way of putting it, instead I'll say learning from the experience of others.

The main thing both he and Ali 'took' or 'copied' as you said it was the pull counter.
You see people today like Mayweather doing the pull counter, Holyfield used it to a different degree as well (in his case it was more of a roll counter), also Roy Jones, but he used his feet (and admitted that he got his version from Salvador Sanchez). The pull counter is when a man throws a punch at you and instead of moving your head side to side, you move it back, usually without moving your feet. You only do when you're much faster than your opponent. First person use the move and noted what it was, was Joe Choynski, man who taught Johnson how to fight, but other people say Peter Jackson used it as well.

Anyway, the thought is always you dont pull back defensively because it leaves you vulnerable to a straight punch, or a really wide looping punch if your opponent just sort of reaches his arm out there (see Donald Curry vs Mike McCallum!). Ali and Robinson never did the defensive part of the move as well as Johnson, but they were able to do the offensive part better. Ali because he had a better jab and could hit you both during and after the defensive move, and Robinson because he had legitimate one punch knockout power (see Gene Fullmer). But backing up with your hands down and still being on the offensive is a Jack Johnson original.

The other thing was picking off punches with your hand away from your face, easy way to get ko'd. Ali didn't do it so much, Robinson did a lot and Johnson was the master of it. And, not to keep going on, but the pivot (sp?) Johnson was the first fighter i ever saw do the pivot for offense (and even more remarkably he did on the outside) and Robinson did it quite well.

And they're kind of linked up because if you think about the great Black pure boxers you think about those guys and a few others like George Dixon and Peter Jackson from before Johnson even (no tape to confirm on their side, just what i've read over the years) Johnson, Robinson and Ali are kind of linked (and I know I'm stretching it to include Robinson, a boxer-puncher). You see a lot of basic moves between them all. I look at Robinson in his prime and see a middleweight version of Jack Johnson laid over Joe Louis! I mean, when I was like 10 years old watching all the old fights with my father, I always said that, he fights like both of them together, he fights like a Joe Louis who doesn't get hit with right hands or put off balance. He fights like a Jack Johnson who can sit there and go shot for shot on the inside.

And Ali to me fights exactly how I might imagine Johnson would all 60-70 years later with better legs.

[Baba Ahmed]

Your last line says enough. And I agree with it, to the extent that all "nows" are related to and connected with "yesterdays." That's a big "all," huh?

And I can dig whacha say'n re weight differences. The facts are as u said: Sugar Ray didn't do that again. As u imagined, so do I after viewing newsreels of the Robinson-Maxim rumble, Sugar Ray kik'd butt.... til the heat wore him out.

I wonder why Sugar Ray's dubbed as "legendary?"

Do u agree with what's generally publicized re why Muhammad 'Ali looks and acts like Alzhiemer(sp?) victim... is it that?

[Basil]

You mean do I think that his physical problems now are a result of what happened to him in the ring?

I think it definitely had a large part to do with it. The thing about it, the Parkinson's that he has, you see more ex-fighters having that. Freddie Roach, one of the best trainers in the world today was an ex worldclass fighter, he has Parkinson's. Not to the extent that Ali does, but who knows, he's around 20 years younger than Ali and didn't take the beatings from the punchers that Ali did. I don't know anyone who has fought for such a long time and not had SOME sort of problems. You can even see it evident in fighters of today.

Fighter named Scott Pemberton, he might have had his last fight, but he viciously slurs his words. James Toney, one of the best defensive fighters ever, he slurs his words a little, of course the Riddick Bowes, Meldrick Taylors and Tommy Hearns' of the world. I mean hell, I boxed amateur for 8 years and my mother tells me that I do it sometimes. Its just not a natural thing to put your body through, getting bashed in the brain by men your own size and the same thing that helped increase the Ali legend to us, the rope-a-dope, may have put him in the situation that he is in now. Its happened to a ton of fighters, maybe not with the exact same illness, but Joe Louis had mental problems at the end of his life, a lot of the older fighters as well I remember stories about Abe Attell (ex featherweight champ from the 1910's) spent like a great deal of the second part of his life in an insane asylum. Its just that brutality to the body, of course it could have had that effect on Ali, as it presumably has had to so many others. Boxing is the most brutal sport in the world by far

And real quick on the Robinson-Maxim fight, I remember the ref fainted in the fight and I looked it up, and it mentioned that he fainted and had to be replaced in the 10th round. And Robinson was winning 10-3, 9-3-1, and 7-3-3 in rounds on the cards when he stayed on his stool after the 13th.

[Baba Ahmed]

I poorly framed the question; but yes no doubt to consistently have one's brains scrambled affects health. Even though 'Ali had rep for not taking excessive blows to his face/head; remember he'd say: look at me I'm beautiful!!! A live trip, he was. I often smile to myself upon hearing a sportscaster of professional football, in particular, say so 'n so has suffered a mild concussion...he's tough though; and when in the 2nd half the performer returns amid stadium wide applauses, announcers say see. Yeah he's tough with brains hardening like a fried egg! Poor analogy, but hope the point's made. So picture a "boxer" get'n jabbed to the head by someone like Joe Louis! Fight after fight.

I asked the question about Muhammad 'Ali, bcause there was a rumor floating 'round in NYC that he'd been warned and advised to not fight the Japanese kick boxer. Why? Bcause they are trained to kick pressure points, as in Chinese accupuncture/accupressure points. Rumor had it that he'd rec'd a series of kicks that would show later in life.

I don't know which "sport" (spelled gladiator sport) is most brutal. I stopped one of my sons, who then was about 11 or so, from "playing" football. I'd seen one of his coaches teaching them how to spear tackle, and knew some devastating injuries that resulted from get'n clothes lined or a helmet speared to a spinal cord or on the hip bone, knee cap, chest.... or a helmet to face or back of the head smash. Intentionally caused mayhem.

Tennis and polo are deemed sports of Kings & Queens; well maybe. But it was the gladiator competitions that early upper crusts enjoyed. Now the masses hoop and holla in tense enjoyments as men try to kill each other.

Thanks for posting the score card entries. Ain't that something? The referee faints; clearly he was out of shape and should've hung his head in shame. Maybe he rec'd a few blows while parting the fighters.
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EDIT: Btw, I did buy some of the stamps, that were coupled with ones of Hattie McDaniels. I'm told only two per year of Black folk. I guess Kwanzaa stamps are specialty category. ;)